CHILDRESS-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > CHILDRESS-DNA > 2008-11 > 1226780615


From: "Amber" <>
Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS-DNA] Childers/Childress DNA Project
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:23:35 -0500
In-Reply-To: <27B77EC993B8461EBB48E15744C4D8F1@JPCHP>


Gary and all:

Sounds like things are going on that I know nothing of (which is good for
me). I am one of the "rough edges" of the Viking Childress group having the
surname St. Clair. I can't really contribute research because since
learning that my 30+ years of research on the St. Clairs may or may not be
flawed but is very sound with the St. Clairs of Virginia leads me to believe
that the answer lays much farther back in time for the difference in
surnames.

I can however lend a hand transcribing original documents of the Childress
Viking Clan. Whatever I can do to help, please let me know. I have FAX,
etc.

Regards,
Amber (St. Clair) Dalakas

New email:




-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Patrick Childress
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:55 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS-DNA] Childers/Childress DNA Project

Hi, Gary

Thanks for responding to my question with such formidable answer. In the
end, however, could you distill your response down to whether or not you're
willing to accept a subgroup of the "James River Viking Clan" as a subset of
the original Childress/Childers DNA Project?

Your consideration would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Pat Childress
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: [CHILDRESS-DNA] Childers/Childress DNA Project



Patrick,
In order to do original research on any lineage, the researcher
inevitably chases false leads. False leads include Childress/Childers
documents that after extensive investigation turn out to belong to
different DNA groups. Avoiding dead ends include resolving whose DNA you
are tracking. You can't do Viking Childress research without keeping
track of some non-Viking DNA lineages, or conversely you can't do Celtic
Childress research without keeping track of non-Celtic DNA lineages. DNA
groupings make use of each other's research.

This DNA Project hired professional researchers to Xerox every
Childress-Childers document for a 100-150 years in about a dozen
counties. The majority of those documents were for Viking Childress
lineages and not directly applicable to the Celtic Childress lineages we
were researching. We waded through them looking for Celtic needles in
Viking haystacks. Other non-Celtic DNA researchers helped, sharing what
they knew.

Within the Viking Childress DNA are several different immigrations
(perhaps 3 or 4 identifiable and who knows how many immigration dates
never to be identified) spread over 150-200 years, not all to the James
River Valley. In all likelihood, the 37-cdyb and 38-cdyb were at one
time two brothers which would mean, ironically, some 38-cdyb markers are
NOT as closely related to other 38-cdyb markers as they are to some
37-cdyb lineages. Therefore identical DNA patterns (38-cdyb; 38-cdyb)
may share a very distant common ancestor and non-matching DNA patterns
(38-cdyb; 37-cdyb) may share a very recent common ancestor, 2 brothers.
DNA will be more helpful when technology permits a thousand or 10
thousand markers to be analyzed. In the meantime there may be different
ways to organize a spreadsheet.

You may find it useful to make spreadsheets unique to your research and
that differ from mine and others. That is the nature of research.
Spreadsheets are opinions, working tools meant to be adapted to the
questions and needs of the researcher. So make the ones you use and
others will make the ones they use and I'll make the ones I use. People
can go to your website and you can do as you like.

Presently courthouse records are crumbling if not stolen by the public.
Low quality microfilm is frequently illegible and destined to loose what
it sought to preserve. Gravestone inscriptions are disappearing or being
altered. If our descendants a million years from now were to come from
the future to talk to us, they would say "find, copy and preserve what
you have in front of you. I, your future descendant can re-think and
analyze in my own day and age. What I cannot do is recreate lost
documents and original source material".so says your future descendants.
What they would value least is our analysis. Each person can reason for
themselves.

What is needed by the Viking DNA group is more original research, more
documents Xeroxed transcribed and understood. Significant funds need to
be spent. Who is doing that? The Viking DNA group needs more
researchers who have the resources and motivation to collect documents,
documents and more documents. Some of the best pioneers in
Childers-Childress research in the past didn't even carry the surname
but laid a foundation anyway. The Viking Childress DNA group needs
anybody and everybody who is willing to help but hurts itself with a
history of bickering amongst themselves with little etiquette and much
attitude. I expect a certain weirdness on public forums, but dominant
personalities in the Viking Childresses post under multiple e-mail
identities so they can be anonymous and abusive to each other. Every
time the Viking DNA group fights, I see Viking Childress group members
and others leave the list, which hurts us all.

The concept of "James River Viking Clan" seems restrictive without
benefit. I expect it would alienate the people you reject. Viking
Childresses need more help, not less. It is no tine to alienate any
researcher because they don't qualify for your group. The Viking
Childresses should be laying good will to any researcher willing to
spend their time and money chasing dead ends they can't yet prove.

The "James River Viking Clan" does not have neat edges. Adopted
descendants would carry the Childress/Childers surname but wouldn't have
your matching DNA. They would be excluded from your group but might have
light to shed on it. There do appear to be immigrants, who match to
your DNA, use your surname, who never settled in the James River Valley.
There are groups that match James River Viking Clan's DNA perfectly but
use other surnames. The "James River Viking Clan" does not have neat
edges.

Since clues are so scarce, I don't see the benefit of eliminating
options. Most people don't like others to classify them. Genealogy gets
used as a snobbery game; who can join the Daughters of the American
Revolution or Sons of the Confederacy. Whose ancestors trace to
Charlemagne. I feel that everybody has a DNA journey to investigate and
an equal tale to tell, so I say suspend judgment. Since you never know
where some clue will show up, I say drag whatever you've got in here and
let's have a look at it. Welcome to the Childress-Childers DNA Project;
no membership requirements.
Regards, Gary

Hi, Gary

I hope all is going well with you. I see that your Childers/Childress
DNA Project now consists of about 90 individuals. You should be proud
of your accomplishments in "growing" the population to the extent it now
exists.

As you may recall, I maintain a separate website tracking the results
and additional data for a subset of your primary group. This "James
River Viking Clan" consists of 50+ individuals, most of whom are
registered only in the Childers/Childress DNA Project for which you and
Jason Harris are the administrative managers.

I'd like very much to have access to some of the administrative tools
available only to Project Administrators to handle some of the
analytical data for my subset. You may recall that on a few occasions,
I've volunteered to assist you on the overall project but you've chosen
to decline my offers. That, of course, is your own business and I
respect your position.

I believe another way to approach this situation is for me to initiate a
project subset which will be limited to only the "James River Viking
Clan." I'll perform the function of Administrative Manager for this
project and will closely monitor the admission of any potential donors.
In the event any future participants ask for admission to the project,
I'll send them over your way for the initial DNA testing. Only if they
fall into the proper marker values will they be asked to join our subset
project.

All the above can, of course, be initiated by me with only the
permission of FTDNA administrators. While I suppose this would be a
possible route, I'd much rather initiate this second project with you
and I in full agreement and understanding. It's important that you
understand that should a person accept the invitation to join the "James
River Viking DNA Project, such a move will in no way affect their
membership in your primary group. They can be members of both Projects.

I'll look forward to your response.

Thanks and Regards,
Pat Childress
"James River Viking Clan" Administrative Manager


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This thread: