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Archiver > CherokeeGene > 2002-04 > 1018158769


From: "Susan Reynolds" <>
Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Vann/Coleman/Wood/Kilpatrick - NC>westward
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:58:10 -0600
References: <003e01c1dda7$0da3cc80$6601a8c0@tu.ok.cox.net> <000f01c1ddaf$734b1400$a21d6bce@screwedup>


Hello, Paula. Do you happen to have a copy of the Dawes application? Would
you abstract it, please, if you do. Maybe there are some clues there. I
don't know an awful lot about the Joll(e)y family, but this is what I know:

John Jolly and his brother Talontuskee were among those Cherokee who early
on favored removing to the west to get away from the whites. On the
emigration rolls of 1817-1835 are both John Jolley and Talonteeskee (another
spelling of the name). They went to Arkansas and Talonteeske e was elected
principal chief. Both Jolly and Talonteeskee favored diplomacy over war
with the Osages and lead the majority of the Western Cherokee in that stance
against Duwali (The Bowl) and Takatoa, the war chief. In 1817, John Jolly
succeeded his brother as principal chief. Here are some miscellaneous
notes:

From Starr:
A44. Malinda Wharton was born December 25, 1803 in Virginia. She married
Thomas Chisholm, born in 1790. He was elected Third Chief of the Western
Cherokees on July 16, 1834. The Principal Chief at that time was John Jolly
and the Second Chief, was Blackcoat. Thomas Chisholm was attacked with
typhoid fever at the council at Tahlonteeskee and on being taken to his home
on Beatty's Prairie, he died on November 12, 1834. Mrs. Chisholm's second
husband was William Wilson, born October 14, 1811. She died on February 19,
1864 and he died on June 20, 1897


Indian Affairs. Laws and Treaties. Vol. II.

Done at Tellico, the twenty-fifth day of October, one thousand eight hundred
and five.
Tallotiskee, his x mark, (MY NOTE: This is probably John Jolly's
brother,Tahlonteeskee)
Broom, or Cunnaweesoskec, his x mark.
John Greenwood, or Sour Mush, his x mark,
Chulioah, his x mark,
Katigiskee, his x mark,
William Shawry, or Eskaculiskee, his x mark,
Taochalar, his x mark,
James Davis, or Coowusaliskee, his x mark,
John Jolly, or Eulatakee, his x mark, (MY NOTE: nice to have his Cherokee
name!)

Indian Affairs. Laws and Treaties. Vol. II.

In witness of all and every thing herein determined, by and between the
before recited contracting parties, we have, in full and open council, at
the Cherokee Agency, this eighth day of July, A. D. one thousand eight
hundred and seventeen, set our hands and seals.
Arkansas chiefs:
Toochalar, his x mark,
The Glass, his x mark,
Wassosee, his x mark,
John Jolly, his x mark,
The Gourd, his x mark,
Spring Frog, his x mark,
John D. Chisholm,
James Rogers,
Wawhatchy, his x mark,
Attalona, his x mark,
Kulsuttchee, his x mark,
Tuskekeetchee, his x mark,
Chillawgatchee, his x mark,
John Smith, his x mark,
Toosawallata, his x mark,

and this is what Jim Hicks has posted about John Jolly
4. ELIZABETH4 EMORY (MARY3 GRANT, LUDOVIC2, JOHN1 GRAUNT) (Source: Emmet
Starr, Grant 1-1-2.) was born Abt. 1748 in Cherokee Nat East, TN. She
married (1) ROBERT DUE (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr, 305.). He was born
Abt. 1740. She married (2) SR TAH-LON-TEE-SKEE. He was born Abt. 1740. She
married (3) _____ JOLLY, son of _____ JOLLY. He was born Abt. 1730. She
married (4) JOHN HELLFIRE ROGERS, SR (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr, 305.)
Abt. 1774. He was born Abt. 1755.

More About ELIZABETH EMORY:
Clan: Ani'-Gilâ'hi = Twisters, Braids, or Long Hair Clan (Mary Grant)

More About ROBERT DUE:
Blood: English

More About _____ JOLLY:
Blood: Non-Cherokee

Notes for JOHN HELLFIRE ROGERS, SR:
John started the Roger surname which includes Chief William Charles Rogers,
Diana Rogers Houston (Sam Houston's wife) and Will Rogers. John's first wife
was Elizabeth Due nee Emory and his second wife was his step-daughter Jennie
Due.

The Texas Cherokee, p70;
...he [Samuel Houston] had married a Cherokee woman, Talihina (also known
as Diana) Rogers, daughter of John Jolly's brother, John Rogers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
On 6/30/1806 [Moravian Diaries] John Rogers who lived on the Hiawassee Riv,
TN, came to Spring Place. He told the Moravians he wanted to put his 12 year
old daughter [unnamed] into the school but her mother [unnamed] was the
sister of John Fawling who had just been killed by James Vann in a duel.
Rogers thought it unwise to rile Vann by having a Fawling in his
neighborhood.

Thus the disputed story of Ailsey, sister of James Vann, who was the third
wife of John Rogers [not listed in Starr] & had a daughter, Polly Ann, born
about 1787 is VERY similar to this sister-in-law of James Vann who was the
third wife of John Rogers [not listed in Starr] and the mother of a daughter
born circa 1794.

Thus Ailsey would be Ailsey Fawling and Polly Ann Rogers would be her
unnamed daughter.

More About JOHN HELLFIRE ROGERS, SR:
Blood: English
Occupation: Trader

Children of ELIZABETH EMORY and ROBERT DUE are:
15. i. JENNIE5 DUE, b. Abt. 1766.
16. ii. MARY (DUE) BUFFINGTON, b. Abt. 1772.

Child of ELIZABETH EMORY and SR TAH-LON-TEE-SKEE is:
iii. JR5 TAH-LON-TEE-SKEE, CHIEF (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr, 367.),
b. Abt. 1766; d. 1819, Arkansas; m. JENNIE LOWREY (Source: Emmet Starr,
Oolootsa 1-1-1-3.); b. Abt. 1780, Tennessee.
Notes for JR TAH-LON-TEE-SKEE, CHIEF:
Starr, A32, pg 472: Tah-lon-tee-skee was a prominent Chicamauga warrior in
1792. In the United States_Cherokee October 25, 1805 Doublehead, who had
hitherto been an implacable war chief was granted three seperate tracts of
one square mile each and Tah-lon-tee-skee received a square mile of land on
the north bank of the Tennessee River, for their influence in negotiating
the treaty. This action becomming unpopular, Tah-lon-tee-skee emigrated to
the Western Cherokee country where he was elected Principal Chief in 1818.
****************************
In 1818, Tah-lon-tee-skee, chief of the Western Cherokee, requested the
American Board of Commisioners for Foreign Missions establish a mission in
the west. Subsequently, Dwight Mission, near present Russellville AR, was
established in the spring of 1820. Tah-lon-tee-skee, having died in the
meantime, was succeeded as chief by his brother, John Jolly, the adopted
father of Sam Houston, who had moved west in 1818.


More About JR TAH-LON-TEE-SKEE, CHIEF:
Aka (Facts Pg): Aaron Price
Clan: Ani'-Gilâ'hi = Twisters, Braids, or Long Hair Clan (Mary Grant)
Occupation: 1818, Principal Chief, Western Cherokee



Child of ELIZABETH EMORY and _____ JOLLY is:
17. iv. JOHN5 JOLLY, CHIEF, b. Abt. 1768; d. December 1838.

Children of ELIZABETH EMORY and JOHN ROGERS are:
18. v. CHARLES5 ROGERS, SR, b. Abt. 1774.
19. vi. AKY ROGERS, b. Abt. 1776.
20. vii. JOHN ROGERS, JR, CAP, b. Abt. 1778; d. June 12, 1846, Washington,
DC.
21. viii. NANNIE ROGERS, b. Abt. 1780; d. Bef. 1819.
22. ix. JAMES ROGERS, b. Abt. 1782.

17. JOHN5 JOLLY, CHIEF (ELIZABETH4 EMORY, MARY3 GRANT, LUDOVIC2, JOHN1
GRAUNT) (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr.) was born Abt. 1768, and died
December 1838.

Notes for JOHN JOLLY, CHIEF:
from Don Chesnut's web page; www.users.mis.net/~chesnut/pages/cherokee.htm
Ahu'lude'gi :
"He throws away the drum" (habitual), from ahu'li, drum, and akwade'gu, "I
am throwing it away" (round object). The Cherokee name of John Jolly, a
noted chief and adopted father of Samuel Houston, about 1800.

More About JOHN JOLLY, CHIEF:
Clan: Ani'-Gilâ'hi = Twisters, Braids, or Long Hair Clan (Mary Grant)
Emigration: February 1818, to Arkansas, from Hiwassee, TN
Occupation: 1819, Principle Chief of Arkansas Cherokee

Children of JOHN JOLLY, CHIEF are:
i. GIRT6 JOLLY, b. Abt. 1790; m. NAOMI; b. Abt. 1775; d. Abt. 1825,
"Old" Dwight Mission, AR.
More About NAOMI:
Baptism: September 05, 1824, as Naomi by missionaries at Dwight Mission, AR


ii. RACHAEL JOLLY, b. Abt. 1795.
iii. PRICE JOLLY, b. Abt. 1805.
iv. COLEESTA JOLLY (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr, 308.), b. Abt. 1810;
m. LOONEY PRICE, JR (Source: Emmet Starr, Grant 1-1-2-7-3.), Bef. 1837; b.
February 1799; d. September 05, 1885.
More About LOONEY PRICE, JR:
1851 Old Settler roll: Tahlequah, 106 (1896 pg 303)
Clan: Ani'-Gilâ'hi = Twisters, Braids, or Long Hair Clan (Mary Grant)
Elected: October 12, 1839, Delegate to Washington, D.C.
Signer 1: July 12, 1839, Act of Union
Signer 2: September 06, 1839, Cherokee Constitution
Starr's Notes: F609


v. BETTY JOLLY, b. Abt. 1815.
vi. SALLIE JOLLY, b. Abt. 1820; m. ISAAC UPTON; b. Abt. 1820.
17. JOHN5 JOLLY, CHIEF (ELIZABETH4 EMORY, MARY3 GRANT, LUDOVIC2, JOHN1
GRAUNT) (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr.) was born Abt. 1768, and died
December 1838.

Notes for JOHN JOLLY, CHIEF:
from Don Chesnut's web page; www.users.mis.net/~chesnut/pages/cherokee.htm
Ahu'lude'gi :
"He throws away the drum" (habitual), from ahu'li, drum, and akwade'gu, "I
am throwing it away" (round object). The Cherokee name of John Jolly, a
noted chief and adopted father of Samuel Houston, about 1800.

More About JOHN JOLLY, CHIEF:
Clan: Ani'-Gilâ'hi = Twisters, Braids, or Long Hair Clan (Mary Grant)
Emigration: February 1818, to Arkansas, from Hiwassee, TN
Occupation: 1819, Principle Chief of Arkansas Cherokee

Children of JOHN JOLLY, CHIEF are:
i. GIRT6 JOLLY, b. Abt. 1790; m. NAOMI; b. Abt. 1775; d. Abt. 1825,
"Old" Dwight Mission, AR.
More About NAOMI:
Baptism: September 05, 1824, as Naomi by missionaries at Dwight Mission, AR


ii. RACHAEL JOLLY, b. Abt. 1795.
iii. PRICE JOLLY, b. Abt. 1805.
iv. COLEESTA JOLLY (Source: Emmet Starr, E Starr, 308.), b. Abt. 1810;
m. LOONEY PRICE, JR (Source: Emmet Starr, Grant 1-1-2-7-3.), Bef. 1837; b.
February 1799; d. September 05, 1885.
More About LOONEY PRICE, JR:
1851 Old Settler roll: Tahlequah, 106 (1896 pg 303)
Clan: Ani'-Gilâ'hi = Twisters, Braids, or Long Hair Clan (Mary Grant)
Elected: October 12, 1839, Delegate to Washington, D.C.
Signer 1: July 12, 1839, Act of Union
Signer 2: September 06, 1839, Cherokee Constitution
Starr's Notes: F609


v. BETTY JOLLY, b. Abt. 1815.
vi. SALLIE JOLLY, b. Abt. 1820; m. ISAAC UPTON; b. Abt. 1820.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paula Schuler" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Vann/Coleman/Wood/Kilpatrick -
NC>westward


> Hi, I can't help you with the Vann family. I only have one intermarried.
I was wondering about the Jolly family you mentioned. I just found out I
have a Keziah Jolly/Jolley in my direct line. b. abt 1800-1804 in NC.
Descendants rejected from Dawes, but I haven't really found much info. on
her or her family yet. Her father was William Jolly/Jolley and her mother
Rachel Davis who were married about 1796. I know names of some of her
siblings, Rebecca, Martha, Rachel, Peter and John Jolly/Jolley. There may
be others. Can you tell me anything about the Cherokee Jolly family? I'm
wondering if these connect somehow.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan Reynolds
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:10 PM
> Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Vann/Coleman/Wood/Kilpatrick -
NC>westward
>
>
> I have pasted in some information below from my cousin and friend, Sue
Solomon. I believe the Elizabeth Vann she is researching is Cherokee.
Everything I've found so far ties in, but we haven't found the
incontrovertible proof yet. Does anyone have this family in their files?
Please note that Sue also has Jolly in her line that I suspect may tie into
the Cherokee Jolly families.
>
> Here is an abbreviated version of my first draft. Elizabeth Vann m. to
William Coleman was mother to my William Absolom Coleman b. 1829 who married
the Kilpatrick dau of Mary B. Wood. William Absolom Coleman is on 1850
Cherokee Co NC census with birth state as TN. Mostly what is on-line is
data from a book Appalachian Ancestors by Ratledge. I have made three notes
in my file. 1. From a Cherokee Page/or TN Page for McMinn Co there are
archives re whites who had been given permission for temporary residency in
Cherokee lands. There is a William Coleman in a timeframe who could be
father to WAC.
>
> Any thoughts? Many thanks. Susan.
>
>
>
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