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Archiver > CoTipperary > 2010-10 > 1288549960

From: Janet Crawford <>
Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] Arthur's places Part 2
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:32:40 +0000
References: <><><96F3DF0E15A848C7A15A52572819B0A4@ARTHURHP>
In-Reply-To: <96F3DF0E15A848C7A15A52572819B0A4@ARTHURHP>

Arthur, These are names for Holycross going waaaaay back and no Certiana:

Holycross or Hollycrosse als. Cell Uachta Lawyne or Cell Uachta Lamund
or Kiluachtir Lawyne or Cealluactair Lamudin or Huachtar-Iamhann or
Holycross of Ochterlawyne or Wochtirlawn or Sanctecrucis or Holy Cross
de Wotyrlamand


On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Arthur Carden <> wrote:
> Where is Arthur, you ask!
> I have been trying to find out where I got the idea that Holycross was at
> one time known as Certiana.  I cannot find Certiana in any of the obvious
> sources, and a search of my computer only brings up draft chapters for a
> revised version of my book "Carden of Barnane" where I mention the
> Stapletons.  I think the idea must have come from the book by Dr Rita C
> Ryan-Hackett.
> Perhaps I will ask Willie Hayes.
> Anyway when I get a minute I intend to study closely what Janet has said
> about all the places mentioned in the Stapleton deed and comment on what she
> has said from the little I know of the subject.  I have a very interesting
> list of 33 tenancy agreements which was appended to the 1809 marriage
> settlement of Woodcock Carden's mother Ann Rutter, all of which mention
> places in and around Barnane , and may cast a little light on some of what
> Janet has told us.  175 acres at Rorardstown were for instance let to
> Jonathan Willington.  This predates the tithe applotments and Griffiths of
> course.
> More anon.
> Arthur
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janet Crawford" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 5:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [COTIPPERARY] Arthur's places Part 2
> Thank you, Pat. It really is a major task to gather the information or
> just to put it down in one place. I didn't tackle the more modern
> placenames from the Tithes and Griffith's as they are usually more
> straightforward. What should come out eventually is the evolution of
> the parishes as we see them today, maybe not with dates for the
> changes, but an alert that There Were Changes. The very old deeds are
> wonderful for pulling out placenames relating to the more ancient
> Irish ones.
> I do hope Pete will be able to do his magic on some of these
> boundaries. Just a sort of timeline (without many dates) for a parish
> would be very helpful.
> Now where is Arthur who asked for this? Haven't heard a peep yet.
> Janet
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Pat Connors <> wrote:
>> Janet, your recent posts shed some light on some of the tithe apploments
>> I have been working on this past week or so. I was perplexed when on
>> one film for the civil parish of Kilfithmone, I found tithes for Barnane
>> and for Killoskehan Civil Parishes. I got out my map and found them in
>> close proximity to one another and was satisfied with that being the
>> reason why they were in the same tithe books. But your history shed a
>> lot more light. Thanks so much for taking the time to enlighten all of
>> us on the evolution of the townlands and their administrative divisions.
>> --
>> Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA
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