DILLER-L ArchivesArchiver > DILLER > 2002-03 > 1017073260
Subject: Re: Notes on Caper Elias DILLER
Date: 25 Mar 2002 09:21:08 -0700
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Message Board URL:
Message Board Post:
Author: E. T. Schmitt Date: 25 Mar
Have you noted the materials on WorldConnect related to Caspar Elias Diller of Lancaster Co., PA. His wife's name is given there as Anna Barbara DORNIS (rather than Pretter/Praytor), married 23 OCT 1719 in Gauangelloch, Heidelberg, Germany. 1st 3 children born Germany, 4th and later born New Holland, Lancaster Co., PA.
This person has apparently found Casper in the European records (or believes he has), as the dates and places are very specific. Caspar's father's name is given as Jean - probably from the marriage record, as no mother's name is given.
I have seen new material posted since my Aug. 2001 post regarding Casper Diller's wife. Here are some new notes I've seen: WFT Vol. 12 #1950 says her name was Anna Barbara Dornis Praytor (source unknown). From OneList, the Diller file: "Caspar Elias Diller, master shoemaker, married Anna Barbara, daughter of Christian DORNIS, on 23 October 1719, in the Lutheran church at Gauangelloch, a village about 13 kilometers southeast of Heidelberg, and 8 kilometers by road east of D-69181 Leimen, into which it is now incorporated. The registers of the Gauangelloch Lutheran church record the births of 7 children, 3 sons and 4 daughters, to Caspar Elias and Anna Barbara. Caspar Elias, his wife, and their 4 surviving children arrived at Philadelphia on board the ship SAMUEL, Hugh Percy, master, from Rotterdam, but last from Deal, in August 1733; the male passengers aged 16 years and over qualified on 17 August 1733. The surviving Gauangelloch Lutheran church registers begin in 1672!
; they have been microfilmed, and copies of these microfilms are accessible through any LDS (Mormon) Family History Center (the registers for the 17th and 18th centuries are on Family History Library microfilms #1189175).
More regarding Casper Diller's parents:
This information on Johanes Hans Dillar, reported father of Casper Elias Diller, comes from WFT Vol. 11 #423, in a tree named "Brakehill, Moser, Kinser of MO, TN 1523-1997" submitted 4/15/1997. The author, Mr. Harless Krauth Brakebill, of this tree, says that Johanes Hans Dillar was born just across the river from Heidelbert. The marriage date would indicate that Marie Balliet had Casper Elias Diller b. c1695 before the estimated date of marriage provided. It is unknown if this is in error, or just why there is this difference. None of this tree's data has been verified by me, but placed here for reference only in further studies. The parent's names were also found in this tree for Marie Balliet.
Other researchers say this man's name was Adam Elias DILLER, birth - Alsace. His father was reportedly Michael DELLOR, of Speyer, who was a Reformer with Martin Luther.
From the Internet: The publication entitled "The Diller Family," November, 1877. by J.L. Ringwalt, Esq., Philadelphia, PA provided the following information - After the long war between Romanists and Protestants and the terrible and villainous massacre of St. Bartholomew, on the night of August 23rd, 1572, the Edict of Nantes was published in 1598, granting equal rights to Protestants; but in 1685, the Edict was revoked and the fires of persecution were rekindled with renewed vigor and the Protestants were compelled to fly from France to Hamburg and Amsterdam in Holland for safety (15,000 persons). In the five years thereafter 1,000,000 are said to have fled to Holland, England, and America (Alsace was nearly depopulated). Under these circumstances it is supposed that the father of Caspar Diller, when the latter was 10 or 15 years old, went from Alsace, in France, to Holland for safety, about the year 1685 or 1690. After some years, Caspar went to England. The author of!
"The Diller Family" says; "Tradition has it that this Caspar Diller married a woman in England, who was of large stature, masculine development, and had a bountiful supply of hair. It may be remarked here, that in Alsace the people speak both French and German. That Caspar was of French extraction is evident from the names of his two sons, Han Adam and Han Martin. This name Han is a corruption of the French name Jean, which as pronounced in the provinces where French and German intermingle, sounds pretty much like Han. Jean is our English John. As proof of Caspar's nativity, I may add that, at the present day, there are Dillers in Alsace, France (it is now German territory), who, I am told, resemble us in features, and in character (being impulsive and energetic.)" "That Caspar went to England is proved by his marriage with an English woman." "There is nothing forced or unnatural in the supposition that the first Caspar Diller, after being driven with his father from Alsac!
e to Holland, and going thence to England, subsequently went to Germany before he emigrated to America. This course was pursued by many of the sorely persecuted French Protestants and German Palatines." "The introduction to Rupp's Collection of upwards of Thirty Thousand Names of German, Swiss, Dutch, French, and other Immigrants in Pennsylvania from 1725 to 1776, says that of the large number of refugees that came to England in 1708 and 1709, seven thousand, after having suffered great privations, returned half naked and in despondency, to their native country. Ten thousand died from want of sustenance, medical attendance and from other causes." It is believed that Caspar Diller also returned to the Continent with his English wife and settled on the German side of the river Rhine, in the Palatinate, 11 1/2 miles from Heidelberg, about the year 1723, where his sons, referred to already, were born. Tradition has it that when Casper Diller emigrated to America, he brought with!
his two sons and three daughters. He settled in Lancaster County, Penn., about 1729, or 1731. The records of Lancaster County, show a deed to him, May 28th, 1738. His other children were born in America (four daughters and one son.) On account of the liberty taken at that early day, by parents, of giving two children the same name, or adding thereto, the reader of the present time is liable to be confused. It is exemplified in both of our ancestral families as in the cases of Han Adam, or Philip Adam, and Han Martin in the Diller family. On the Koiner side, there were George Adam and George Michael. The George was designed to compliment a favorite on either side of the house. The sons of Caspar Diller and Barbara his wife, the progenitors of that great family, were Han Adam, Hand Martin, and Caspar. The names of the daughters were not known to the author of "The Diller Family", but he gives the names of their husbands; as, Breckbill, Keiner, Sweiger, Imboda, Croft, Ensminge!
r, and Sensabach. Margaret, nee Diller, the progenitor of the Koiners, is the only name yet discovered. That the Imbodens of Virginia, were descendants on the maternal side, has long been known to us. The publication, "The Diller Family," is, to us, a new development of that side; and we regret our lack of time and space to draw from it more fully. It discloses that the American Koiner family cannot justly claim a pure German origin; but only half, in consequence of their mother's French and English origin. Marvelous representations of the physical development and strength of some of the earlier Dillers has been related. Some of the earlier Koiners were much stouter than the present generation; so that both sides may trace their largest specimens of physical manhood to their strong-haired and robust English mother.
Caspar Diller Commenced his young life, like his son-in-law, Michael Koiner, under circumstances which tried his metal. A refugee, he was thrown on his personal resources for a living. It is said, "It was in Holland that he learned to make, or did make, wooden shoes." Dr. David Diller, who has given the subject attention, says; "But that he resided for some time in Holland prior to going to England, seems incontestable from the differences in the orthography of the name, and various other circumstances. However this may be, tradition has it, and I have often heard my aunts say so, that he married in England that when he went to the neighborhood of New Holland, (Penn.) and bought property, his wife had a linen apron full of silver. Taking all the evidence together, it appears that after his marriage in England he turned his face again toward his native land, whither he went . . . but his wife, being of English origin and unable to adapt herself to the language and custom!
s of the Continent, or, perhaps, owing to the unsettled condition of the country, they concluded to seek a peaceful abode in the New World." Casper Diller, our great great-grandfather, on the Diller side, purchased a farm near New Holland, called Hole Place (Loch Platz),-was a shoemaker and became very wealthy. He was still living on the 16th December, 1769, and attained to nearly 100 years of age. He died about 1770 or 1775. His grave cannot be pointed to with absolute certainty.
Margaret Diller was reported wealthy, and was of a highly respectable and numerous family; many of whom still live in the same vicinity, and more than twenty of them, at a recent date, were enrolled members of the same Lutheran congregation, at New Holland, Penn. Some of the Dillers hold official and professional positions creditable to them and their connections.
Norma Lewis, an expert DEINADT/KOINER researcher, wrote to the KEINADT mailing list June 2000: "The Diller History was first published in 1877 by John Luther F. Ringwalt, with additional data provided by Theodore Diller, Alfred Diller and Isaac Diller (Isaac was a grandson of Adam (Han or Jean Adam, oldest son of Casper and Barbara Diller). They formed a committee and exchanged info they gleaned from some hundred members of the family. They didn't seem to read any records, just tried to straighten everyone out from stories passed down in the family. In reading it very closely, some of it is very good although it all needs to be checked against primary sources of some kind. The census after 1850 and church records before that, although they went to many different churches in that area. County records would be helpful also. 1877 is when Absalom Koiner first began to work seriously on the Koiner family history, from things said in the early pages of the history. He got s!
ome info from this Diller committee, but unlike them, Absalom and his cousins read county and church records for a lot of their data. In 1910, 1015, and 1939 they held Diller reunions at New Holland, and republished and added an appendix to the Diller History in 1942 ~ This Diller Council was made up of Alonzo Diller, Pres. and others ~ Amos Diller of Chambersburg had identified the grave of Casper Diller in Hill Cemetery showing that he was born June 25, 1696 and died at age 91 in 11/1787. Near that grave are the graves of John Schweickert Imboden and his wife Eleanora, daughter of Casper. This committee decided that Casper died and was buried at this place, in Cleone, which later became Annville, because he had been living with this daughter and son-in-law. They had previously thought he was buried near his second son, (Han or Jean) Martin in a spot that had been plowed over and lost to the family. The graves of Philip Adam, the oldest son, and his son, Leonard, are in t!
he Lutheran graveyard at New Holland and are clearly marked (this was in 1939, don't know if that is still the case). George, son of Leonard, and wife (Souder) are buried in St. James Churchyard in Lancaster PA. It was believed in 1877 that (Han or Jean) Martin refused to be buried in New Holland in the churchyard and chose to be buried in a private spot under a chestnut tree facing the Welsh mountains. The chestnut tree was gone by 1877 (only some 5 years), the land plowed and the stones gone, however, many family members told of where they were located and remembered this spot. It is believed the Diller girls (married and with other names) who lived on that farm at that time had the stones removed when the chestnut tree had to be removed, none of the stones were readable and nobody knew who they were. This farm was thought to be Casper's Loch Platz, or Hole Place, on Mill Creek, as alleged by Mr. George W. Ringwalt ~ about one mile south of New Holland, on which Adam Di!
ller lived and died about 1835. The farm abutting it belonged in 1877 to the Kinzers (Magdalina, born 1752, daughter of Adam, married Michael Kintzer) and was also thought to be that of Casper's, or that Casper owned all that land along Mill Creek, which would be the approximate location of Milltown, where Michael and Margaret moved after their marriage, about 1763, and where Michael had a linseed oil mill. Now that we have a better idea of the location, I think we can find some deed information. This Diller Council had a copy of a deed dated Dec. 16, 1769, of the sale of 336 acres of land from Casper to his son Casper, signed Casper (CED)Deelor (his mark X in middle). A very interesting paragraph follows
this data ~ a learned attorney friend of the family told George Ringwalt that CED stands for Christus est Deus and equals Christ is God (I believe this is French or a combination of French and Latin). It was said this signature was adapted by Protestants embittered by persecution for expressing an idea analogous to that which led to the use of the X in signatures in Catholic countries. I think this is very interesting. I've said before I have read where Germans (maybe all) settlers and ship passengers were told to make their mark with an X even if they knew how to write their name, I will try to find some data to support this
The Diller History is 55 some pages of memories submitted by Diller men and a few women. 1939 would coincide with FDR's Social Security legislation which subsequently made it legal to open the census for 70 years in the past to support the age to obtain a Social Security pension, so reading the census was not much of an option to these early researchers. However, they should have read church records and county records, I don't understand why they didn't. I can find no place in this history where ages or dates are supported by records. They did read tombstones. The book is divided into family groups, The Brooklyn Dillers, Diller, Nebraska, The Illinois Dillers, The Downington Dillers (IL), the New Holland, Lancaster, Blue Ball, Hanover (Cumberland County, the family of Casper, son of Casper moved there in 1772-73), Leacock Township, Lebanon and Lehigh, etc. The 1942 Appendix lists the family by generations but it still is very hard to follow. I think they tried to a certain e!
xtent to figure out what was
written in 1877, adding some cemetery notes. They listed men who fought in the Civil War, politicians and business men, but seldom show how they are related. It is just maddening to try to figure out who they were. You think you've got it figured out and run into the wrong branch in the wrong section. This family really scattered after 1800, much worse than the Koiners ~ there is a Maryland branch too ~ they went to NY, to New England, to the west, to the south, just everywhere! The names of the first two sons are a real mystery. Philip Adam was called Han Philip Adam, or Jean Philip Adam and the second son was called Han Martin or Jean Martin, supposedly meaning the same thing in German and French. In the ship passenger list from 1733 they were called Han Adam and Han Martin and the whole family listed under "Taylor," as Casper pronounced the name "Deelor" as indicated by a deed he signed in 1769. All through this "book" somebody comes forward to tell the story again of ho!
w Casper's father was thought to be Jean Diller (or Jean Francis Diller) and we found a man by this name in records in Holland before 1700 ~ We don't know if this is really Casper's father. This man supposedly went to England, you know the story ~ came back to "the continent," or Casper did, with an English wife. It is further said he learned to make wooden shoes in Holland and made his living that way until his wife had an apron full of silver
when they came to the New World. This story is told by several different old men in this book. However, the records in Gauangelloch, near Heidelburg, prove this woman was German, her parents lived in this town. But, these records don't go back far enough to prove Casper was born there, or Barbara for that matter. That area is surrounded by pockets of Huguenot settlements granted assylum in Germany during the Protestant uprisings, or after that. Some may have been among the 5000 some people who supposedly returned to "the continent" from England when it was found there was not enough food or shelter for all the refugees who went to England to escape persecution in France. Many also stayed in Holland. My friend, Philip van Dael, has finally identified his French Huguenot ancestor and is going to France in July to research this ancestor. His research may help us with this big question. Philip may some day agree to go into Germany and look for records for us, he is a young man !
(early 40s) and a very fine researcher who can read several languages, and he looks up old records in unusual places ~ palace records, villages which no longer exist ~ there are many paper records that are very old and not filmed by LDS ~ he and a friend went to an old palace library full of decaying books and spent a whole day looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack and actually found what they were looking for from some 500 years ago. They determine where the family was from, when, and then go there and find out
which records may still be available by talking to locals. Philip has researched his van Dael line back to Charlemagne, I have it on my other computer. It is so precise it just boggles the mind. So, I hate to give up on this French Huguenot idea with a few slim clues it may be true, but it is like the Coignet/Keinadt connection, very elusive. I think we should proceed to try to put together a few generations of Dillers
in PA and find out exactly were they lived, at least to 1800~1850 or so. That would give us a foundation of the early families and branches to connect later families to. Anyone want to help? The records should be at LDS. This is what I'm thinking at this point. I will search the net and see if somebody has already done it too. Reading the Diller History is the most frustrating thing I've ever tried to do. It is on the net. Do a search for Diller and you will find it. Norma"