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Archiver > Dutch-Colonies > 2011-08 > 1313374079


From: E Johnson <>
Subject: Re: [DUTCH-COLONIES] Who is Weyntie Elberts,widow of Aert Willemszen
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:07:59 -0400
References: <4E46996A.40309@stratos.net>
In-Reply-To: <4E46996A.40309@stratos.net>


This has been very interesting.

Pam, this here:

> Note: Elbert Elbertsen, from Amsterdam, age 35, glassmaker's apprentice,
married in Amsterdam on 26 Apr 1653 Elisabeth Grevenraet, widow of Isaac
de Riemer.

I've been trying to find the book number (Source) of this marriage (or
engagement) record.
Whose note is this?

Would love to see this in the original Dutch, because (for one thing) I find
it hard to believe an apprentice would be still in that position at age 35.
Something is wrong, somewhere. Need the original terminology.

Has anyone ever seen a book number for this marriage record? I have been all
over 142 pages of Totten & Hoffman articles in 1929 NYGBR & Don't see it.

Did the W.E. De Riemer, NY 1905 article contain a specific citation to the
marriage record?

Thanks,
Liz J

On 13 August 2011 11:34, Pamela J. Sears <> wrote:

> Hi Ethel, Howard, et al,
>
> > Robert Miller in his article Aert Willemszen and His Descendants?
> > in NYGBR vol 26, p. 134 says, Weyntje Elberts, his wife, probably
> > came from Nieukercken, in Zeeland, with her brother Elbert Elbertszen.?
> > He doesn?t seem to offer any proof they are siblings, though.
>
> Robert B. Miller was writing in July 1895 for the Record and, sadly,
> offered no sources for anything he said.
>
> Weyntje Elberts may have had a brother Elbert who was not necessarily a
> Stoothoff. Consider the following snippets:
>
> [NNC 5:53} More from Amsterdam notarial records by Pim Nieuwenhuis:
> 3 Aug 1654 [notary J. de Winter, 2282:IV-86] Elbert Elbertsen from
> Amsterdam, about to sail to New Netherland, gives power of attorney to
> his wife Elisabeth Grevenraet.
>
> Note: Elbert Elbertsen, from Amsterdam, age 35, glassmaker's apprentice,
> married in Amsterdam on 26 Apr 1653 Elisabeth Grevenraet, widow of Isaac
> de Riemer.
>
> kind Jillis
> vader Frederick Grevenraet
> moeder Marrie van Marselaer
> doop 4 mei 1653
> sp: Gilbert [somebody], Catrina Mattis [I think]
> religie Hervormd, Oude kerk
> bron 9 p.56
>
> Sponsors were:
> * Elbert Eldertsz. [[Gasseon]] --the one who married Elisabeth
> (Hendricks) Grevenreat, wid. of Isaac Pietersz dr Riemer, and drowned in
> 1655 at New Amsterdam [Stokes Iconography II:286, citing Minutes of
> Orphan's Court I:2] **
> * Catryna Mattis~ [[van Sonsbeeck]] --Gilles van Marsselaer's
> second wife.
>
> and,
>
> This is a quote from the book, "The De Riemer Family: AD 1640?-1903"
> by W.E. De Riemer, NY 1905: page 8.
> "Lysbet (Grevenraet) the widow of Isaac De Riemer married Elbert
> Elbertse, a glazier by trade. He died suddenly as appears from the
> following record: Nov. 9, 1655. The Burgomasters, in their quality of
> Orphanmasters, report the death of Elbert Elbertsz on board the Bonte
> Koe in North River. Rynier Rycken is appointed his attorney and
> secretary Kip to inventory his estate. (Original Records of Burgomasters
> and Orphanmasters).
>
> Elbert Elbertszen (Stoothoff), was a weaver by trade (according to
> Rensselaer's Bowier Manuscripts), and died after December 1686:
>
> From Bergen's Early Settlers:
> His will, not recorded, is da. Dec. 18, 1686, in which he devised
> Bergen's Island to his s. Gerret and entailed it to his descendants.
>
> GMNJ 43:97 (Sept. 1968). But see TAG 45:177 (1969) "Stoothoff-Cool
> Notes" by George E. McCracken. He points out that, contrary to
> statements by Bergen and Ledley, the will of Capt. Stoothoff is recorded
> in Suffolk County, Mass, Probate Book 13:6-10.
>
>
> > One thing that puzzles me is the bap. of Wyntje on 8 Mar 1643 by an
> > Aert Willemszen and then the bap. on 21 June 1643 of a son Elbert.
>
> It puzzles me as well, but it didn't seem to bother Robert B. Miller in
> his article.
>
> I just don't think there is enough information to positively identify
> Weyntje Elberts.
>
>
> Regards,
> Pam Sears
>
>
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