ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L Archives
Archiver > ENG-HAMPSHIRE > 2007-01 > 1168145682
From: "Ray Lewis" <>
Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Census Information,civil rights and family history: one opinion, for what it's worth
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:55:06 +0900
In-Reply-To: <002101c731fe$2bb588c0$579e06ca@deborahly2acqi>
I don't usually add to political discussions, it usually inflames opinion in
some way but .....
Just to add my ten cents worth, all the data for all Australian censuses
before 2001 were destroyed as a matter of policy. It is only in the last two
censuses that people have had the opportunity to tell the Government that
they want their data kept and stored for the requisite 100 years. On these
last two censuses there has been a place to indicate whether you wish your
data to be kept and stored but it was up to the person who completed the
census form to give that consent not all the other members of the household
being counted. And according to one of my friends, who didn't fill in his
name on the census form, the collector did not take him to task about it.
Data matching goes on whether we know about it or not. The advent of huge
amounts of electonic data storage in the 60's by way of magnetic tape made
it possible and governments saw it as a way by which they could discover
useful data and extrapolate and interpolate to obtain information about the
population. Computers were a bit slower than but it was possible, and I am
certain that it went on if only in a small way. Now there is no need to
combine all the data into one gigantic database, all that is needed is a
program which gains access to the data as long as the consent of each
government department is available. Such programs are available now, and
departmental consent is only a formality.
Governments of all colours would love to know all about their electorates,
but to date in Australia, no government can be certain of the way an
individual votes. Nor, if you wish to disappear from the electoral roll by
refusing to register, can any government here in Australia compel you to
register. However, my feelings about that are that if you don't want to
vote, don't complain about the government.
And with that I'll say
G'day all
Ray Lewis
Hazelmere Western Australia where it is warm and sunny.
-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Deb Guildner
Sent: Sunday, 7 January 2007 10:50 AM
To:
Subject: [ENG-HANTS] Census Information,civil rights and family history: one
opinion, for what it's worth
Well there is always the innocent explanation, and I have seen people do
this myself:
they reinvent themselves for purely psychological reasons...change various
aspects of their lives, take on a different persona to suit their new
philosophy.
There are many classical examples of this, institutional (eg names taken on
by nuns) to non-institutional (those on spiritual quests).
They may just want to disassociate themselves from their families.
Whatever, our household did not get to participate in the last census at
all, a few months ago.
That was a decision taken by the head of the household. (Not myself). I did
not object but the other person had very strong views about it.
He is not hiding anything except himself!
Some people are just non-conformist by nature, and resent the Government
amassing what to some are precious personal details.
On the Australian Census they now ask all sorts of questions: it isn't a
mere head count, like it was when it began in Britain in the C19.
Why does a government need to know, for example, what religion one is? Who,
in the Australian Bureau of Statistics, wants to know ?
So they can legislate for or against it, or manipulate the electorate to
gain votes?
After data had been compiled, the original Australian Census records used to
be destroyed until recently, but even then, they did not ask one's name.
It was possible to put down virtually anything, and they were none the
wiser. No facility for government department data matching existed then!
There is a limited amount of data matching betwen specific government
departments at present, and though there have been moves afoot to combine
all govt records together onto one gigantic database, there is a surprising
amount of opposition to that from all corners of the political spectrum.
More recently, the whole census system has all changed: records are no
longer really destroyed, as names are now included, and I believe, kept.
People therefore resent the intrusion more nowadays..
Some people hate governments compiling copious amounts of information about
them; they argue that if for privacy reasons, no-one else has the right to
access detailed information about one, then the government has even less
reason!
The government is just whoever gets voted in and that is a lottery held
every three or four years! Our current govt is particularly reviled!
There are also documented cases of government staff illegally obtaining
information about people at their workplaces. There have been sackings and
reprimands.
There is a whole generation of people who remember vividly (and painfully)
how the electoral roll was used as the key list of those who, by a lottery
system, would be involuntarily drafted into the Vietnam War. Some still
refuse to vote, and their names do not appear on the electoral roll. I
believe that "conscientious objectors" are exempted from that compulsion.
However, in the majority of cases, the government who is supposed to "know
everything" is none the wiser.
Otherwise our precious democracy with all its flaws, and warty toads at the
helm, would rather resemble a communist or fascist (therer's little
difference in the opinion of some political commentators) dictatorship,
where everyone spies on everyone, and like the wind, changes their
allegiance to whatever elite is in power.
It is nice to know that one can still excercise one's freedom to ignore some
of society's compulsions!
Family historians (and their concerns) aren't above the rest of humanity, at
least, we weren't the last time I checked!
I feel very priveleged to be able to construct my family trees, and I try to
be compassionate towards those departed ones, whose lives I endlessly turn
over in my pursuits. No matter how many records I collect, I very much feel
that I will never really know those long gone souls.
They are all just paper people now.....but they may be upstairs watching!
Deb
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil & Marg Andrews" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] E-petition - Census Information
> My thoughts are that at least by the time one is a pensioner,
> there isn't anything the Govt doesn't already know about you!
> So unless one has something one wants or needs to hide, then
> why bother attempting to mislead whoever wants to read the
> results either now or in the future?
> Here in Australia the Census records have never been kept.
> How we historians wish they had been.
> Marg A
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Hedgcock" <>
> To: <>; "ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L"
> <>; "ENG-SOUTHAMPTON-L"
> <>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] E-petition - Census Information
>
>
>> If I had filled in a form with the assurance it wouldn't be available to
> the
>> public for x years I would have second thoughts about filling out more if
>> the government amended those assurances - an analogy that could be taken
> to
>> today's census where people deliberately fill these incorrectly. It would
> be
>> far better to put time and effort into transcribing/assisting in some way
> so
>> other records of value to family historians are available.
>> Andy
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "jim @frome" <>
>> To: <>; "ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L"
>> <>; "ENG-SOUTHAMPTON-L"
>> <>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] E-petition - Census Information
>
>> > --- Sandra J Smith <> wrote:
>> >> Thought some might be willing to support this e-petition to the Prime
>> >> Minister, asking for census info to be released after 70 years. Open
> to
>> >> UK residents and ex-pats.
>> >> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/CensusInfoFreed/
>> >> Probably wont have any effect, but worth trying?
>> >> Sandra
>> >
>> > The censuses post 1911 were taken with the assurance that the
> information
>> > would not be released before 100 years.
>> >
>> > This was not the case pre 1911, but the "new" rules were in fact used
>> > to
>> > keep the earlier censuses under wraps.
>> >
>> > Not much chance of a law change for these later censuses.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim Parsons
>
>
>
> .............................................
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