FEEFHS-L ArchivesArchiver > FEEFHS > 2007-11 > 1195439406
From: "Mark W. Gardner" <>
Subject: Re: [FEEFHS] FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:30:06 -0700
Galicianna would be how a person who was born and raised hearing the
Slavig tongues would have referred to some one as a "Galician" Galicia
is a country that was autonomous at times and other times was a
kingdom within an empire. It last disappeared in 1918 when World War 1
ended as ti had been previously been a kingdom within the
Austrian-Hungarian Dual Monarichal Empire. Wikipedia has an excellent
article on it as found at this link.
On Nov 18, 2007 3:08 AM, Skliar <> wrote:
> Galiciana is almost certainly referring to the region currently mainly in the Ukraine situated on the border between Poland and austria. In the 1930s, however, it will have belonged to poland. This area is known as Galizien. www.halgal.com is a brilliant website for researching Galizien genealogy.
> Research into this area is relatively popular, since numerous resources are available. Checking out "Pradziad" on the Polish archives website might help you determine if records exist for your area.
> B Skliar
> > From: > To: > Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:00:56 -0500> CC: > Subject: Re: [FEEFHS] FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7> > Hello, I have no answers for you. BUT I do have questions. I use to belong > to a Lithuanian site a man from Mass. [Raymond Balta] had, Since I got a > New PC and I've lost all information perhaps some one can help me find that > site again. as a very young child I use to hear my grand mother refer to > her 1 st son's wife as a ''galicianna''. To this day nether I or my cousin, > who's mom claimed to be polish have any idea where this country, area , or > section of the world is, or what that name means. I was born in 1930, and > cousin in 1934, so we were around a large group of folks from the old > country. Our fathers were brothers. I grew up Lithuanian, church,schools, > she was brought up Polish, church, schools. Any thing you can tell us on any > of the information I have shared, would be greatly !
appreciated by us. Thank > you for reading.> Barbara E. Leclerc [ french husbands name prounced leclair...]> richbarb@ grolen.com> > > > galician> ----- Original Message ----- > From: <>> To: <>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:05 AM> Subject: FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7> > > >> >> > Today's Topics:> >> > 1. Re: FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 6 (Carol Menges)> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > Message: 1> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:38:36 -0700> > From: "Carol Menges" <>> > Subject: Re: [FEEFHS] FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 6> > To: <>> > Message-ID: <001b01c82951$8ddf4a90$>> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";> > reply-type=original> >> > Dear Sheila,> >> > I'm no expert in all this, but since no one's jumped in here to answer > > your> > query, and since you're new here on the list, I didn't !
want you to feel> > disappointed in the lack of response and p!
think no one of this> > organization would have a clue to help you out. I think they're just > > quite> > busy already in multiple organizations and their own genealogical work.> >> > I've been doing a lot of reading and attending FEEFHS Conferences over the> > past decade that have left me with enough basic information to suggest > > that> > your mystery isn't particularly uncommon at all: children might be born > > in> > an entirely different country from their parents, no matter whether the > > new> > country was considered particularly friendly to Jews or not.> >> > My genealogical leanings are more Galician / Ukrainian / Belorussian> > oriented, but the history way back clearly has common ground with yours.> >> > Even just beginning to study the history of Jews in general throughout> > Europe helps a person see the necessity for various groups to migrate or> > actually emigrate--legally or otherwise--to whatever new location would> > allow them to survive, at least for !
awhile, until the heat would ratchet > > up> > once again and make it imperative to move again.> >> > My suggestion would be to begin, if you haven't already, a careful > > personal> > study of the history of your areas of interest. It's a painful thing to > > do> > because the history is rife with misery and unrelenting horror on a > > frequent> > basis, but it will also likely clear up any questions you're asking.> >> > Recently I watched a PBS video I'd had on hand for quite awhile on Jewish> > immigration to the US during the 19th century. The patterns of > > congregation> > and subsequent migration westward have a lot in common with your history.> > The richer emigrants were more mobile from place to place even within > > Europe> > before they got here, and they didn't cause the same kind of distrust for> > doing so as those who were less well off. In fact, England and France > > often> > welcomed them--I don't know much about Sweden, specifically. Sometimes> > employm!
ent would cause their removal from one place to another, even !
to a> >
neighboring country that had previously been their sworn enemy not long> > before, such as stories I've read concerning Russians going to Finland for > > a> > time. This isn't unusual. Think of our own relations with Japan and> > Germany since WWII as cases in point. Ever since the French Revolution of> > the late 18th-century there was antagonism between the rich ruling class > > of> > privilege and those who wanted a better life and more self-determination> > than they were ever likely to be given. There were a series of uprisings> > all over Europe, often instigated by student leaders, that tried to effect> > change. None of them was successful, actually, but they brought to the> > forefront of people's imaginations what might be possible if only things> > were different. All this kept leaders edgy because the students often > > were> > still fomenting revolutionary actions from new safe havens, while ordinary> > citizens outside of that conflict were either ignorant of t!
he events or > > were> > alarmed for their own safety because of the resultant fallout.> >> > Jews, basically, weren't well liked anywhere, so it hardly mattered much > > of> > the time whether they traveled east or west. "The Holocaust" we're > > familiar> > with is only one of *many* over the span of human history, the > > 20th-century> > central European version. But, yes, Jews were sometimes lured eastward > > with> > various promises of a better life because those who made the promises > > needed> > their agrarian or financial expertise for a time, or they wanted that> > expertise as well as a human shield with land to protect who would be the> > first line of defense for the leaders' southern borders, or some other> > useful, self-serving reason. Those promises were about as iron tight as > > the> > person in charge: when he or she was out, the promises often went out > > with> > him or her, too. If the new homeland became intolerable--and the family > > had> > the re!
sources to do so--they'd emigrate again. There are newer books!
> > deal
ing with the subject, but the one I own that entirely blew me away is> > called *The Unwanted* by Michael R. Marrus. It's still considered a > > classic> > on the subject.> >> > It wasn't until after World War I that refugees flooded Europe in ways > > never> > known before. They went every known direction over the interwar years,> > trying in desperation to find some place that would allow them to be safe,> > back and forth, as borders became closed to them. They were not allowed > > to> > emigrate, typically, without papers to allow them to cross from place to> > place (passports), and passports were hard to come by for most of them.> > Eventually they had no options remaining. The attention of the most of > > the> > leaders of the world was brought to Paris to begin that convoluted process> > of dealing with the situation, very badly. Politics intervened more often> > than a caring for humanity. A fairly new book on that with all the gory> > details is *1918*, I believe i!
t was called. I don't have a personal copy> > but I believe you could find it on interlibrary loan, at the very least.> > Sweden was involved in this too, so I believe there might be something of> > value to you in that book.> >> > Did Karl and Hilma still have relatives in Sweden? That would be a good> > reason to keeping visiting, if they could afford the travel.> >> > I read the stories in genealogical journals or historical analyses of> > families or individuals from the late 1800s or the early 1900s who thought> > they were going to be better off in Russia or eastern Ukraine than they > > were> > anywhere in central Europe. I can't help wishing they hadn't left then > > for> > points west, considering my hindsight view of their later experiences. > > But> > they had community and family closer at hand, languages and cultures in> > common, possibilities for advancement--maybe--where they were, instead of> > the super-hyped and quite fraudulent advertising offered by the!
American> > agents sent to bring ever increasing numbers of w!
o the coal mines> > and factories of the eastern United States, or later to the farmland and> > deserts of the mid- and western states. I can appreciate better now that> > their options weren't as easy to define as I had previously thought. Even > > a> > novel such as *My Antonia*, by Willa Cather, points out how desperate life> > often was for those emigrants who came out west. Many left the Old > > Country> > because they had no compelling reason to stay. But coming here was not an> > easy thing either, especially for any traumatized adults who had likely > > used> > up at least most of their emotional resources long ago.> >> > All of this may not help you very much, overall, but I do believe the> > self-study is warranted. There are well researched works out lately that> > leave no illusions about what our ancestors faced, what they had to> > overcome. I realize now that it was their children who actually had the> > chance to succeed, the ones who still had hope in their !
future. Bless > > those> > parents who brought them here, our grandparents or great-grandparents, the> > ones who didn't want to talk to us about why they left.> >> > Mine came with nearly nothing. Yours apparently had a better financial > > time> > of it, at least until your great-grandfather left the family. My> > grandparents weren't Jewish but they had their own horrors because they > > were> > amongst the lowest of the low on the pecking order once they got here> > anyway: eastern European Galicians.> >> > There is a wealth of experts in this as well as other organizations within> > FEEFHS' umbrella group. I suggest that you come to as many of their> > conferences as you can and pick their brains. Also, that you attend> > the International Conferences on Jewish Genealogy when you can make those,> > too. I did my first one this past July and found a new source for help in> > learning about paternal lines of long ago. Unfortunately, this mailing > > list> > is very quiet!
most of the time.> >> > --Carol Menges> >> >> > ----- Origina!
e ----- > > From: <>> > To: <>> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:05 AM> > Subject: FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 6> >> >> >>> >>> >> Today's Topics:> >>> >> 1. New To List...Gen. Query...Gettner... ()> >>> >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>> >> Message: 1> >> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:06:54 EST> >> From: > >> Subject: [FEEFHS] New To List...Gen. Query...Gettner...> >> To: > >> Message-ID: <>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >>> >> Dear Listers,> >>> >> I am very glad to have found this list! I have what I think is an> >> interesting genealogical puzzle that I have been working on for years.> >> Perhaps folks> >> on this list might have some input that would assist in putting the> >> puzzle> >> pieces together.> >>> >> Here is what I have thus far on my great grandparents:> >> * Karl H!
ugo Gettner and Agda Charlotta Wengelin/Wivert (who was > >> born> >> in Uppsala, Sweden ? not far from Stockholm) had a daughter, Anna Sonja> >> Elisabet Gettner, March 14, 1897 in Moscow, Russia.> >> * Karl and Agda were married May 7, 1898 in St. Petersburg, > >> Russia.> >> * Karl and Agda had a son, Carl Rynow Gettner (my grandfather),> >> March> >> 03, 1899 in Stockholm, Sweden.> >> * Karl, Agda, Sonja (the name she went by), and Carl came to the > >> US> >> on board the Ivernia in June 1901. The arrival port was Boston, MA.> >> However, they ended up in NY City where they lived. The ship record> >> states that> >> their last residence was Christiania. In fact, we have a photo of my> >> grandfather as a baby that was taken there.> >> * My grandfather, Carl Rynow Gettner, always said that the family> >> was> >> rich until his father, Karl Hugo Gettner, ran off with the nanny and> >> moved> >> out west. Also, Gettner is a Jewish surname and, apparently, my great> >> gra!
ndfather was a Russian Jew. Since my grandfather, Carl Rynow G!
>> did not> >> practice the Jewish faith I assume either he or his father, Karl Hugo> >> Gettner,> >> assimilated as did many, many Jewish families to avoid persecution. The> >> Russian Pogroms are an example.> >> * According to a WWI Draft Registration Card dated Sept. 11, 1918,> >> my> >> great grandfather, Karl Hugo Gettner, was born April 29, 1874 and was> >> living> >> at ?54 High E., Detroit, Wayne County, MI.? His occupation is listed as> >> ?> >> surveying, instrument making.? His nearest relative was Hilma C.> >> Gettner.> >> His eyes were listed as gray and his hair was listed as gray.> >> * In the 1920 census Karl and his wife, Hilma, were living with> >> Karl?> >> s brother, Albert Gettner ?at 111 Seamore, Detroit, Wayne County, MI.?> >> At> >> that time Albert was 52 years old. According to the census record he was> >> born in Russia and his parents were born in Germany. Albert?s wife,> >> Louise, was> >> 53 at this time. The census record states that she was b!
orn in NY and> >> her> >> parents were born in Germany. At this time Karl (Carl on the census> >> record)> >> was 45 years old and was born in Russia. Karl?s wife, Hilma, was 44> >> years old> >> and was born in Sweden.> >> * Apparently Karl and Hilma sailed across the Atlantic several> >> times> >> to and from Gothenburg (G?teborg), Sweden and NY City. On one of the> >> ships> >> records in 1955 Hilma is listed as Hilma Carolina Gettner.> >> * About Gothenburg, Sweden: ?The harbour developed into Sweden's> >> main> >> harbour for trade towards the west, and with the _Swedish emigration to> >> North America_> >> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_emigration_to_North_America)> >> increasing, Gothenburg became Sweden's main point of departure. The> >> impact> >> of Gothenburg as a main port of embarkation for Swedish emigrants is> >> reflected by _Gothenburg, Nebraska_> >> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg,_Nebraska) , a small Swedish> >> settlement in the United St!
ates.?> >> * My grandfather, Carl Rynow Gettner, often wrote t!
o a Berg
er and> >> Beda> >> Hammaren. They lived in NY City and Berger was an architect. Berger > >> was> >> born in Sweden. Berger and Beda also lived in Stockholm, Sweden.> >> I am very interested in why the brother's, Karl and Albert Gettner, > >> would> >> have been born in Russia while their parents were born in Germany.> >>> >> Was there some sort of work related issue going on in the late 1800's> >> that> >> would have prompted a German couple to move to Russia.> >>> >> If they were Jewish, why would they have moved to Russia where Jews were> >> not> >> well liked?> >>> >> How would the Russian, Karl Hugo Gettner, have met a Swedish girl from> >> north> >> of Stockholm?> >>> >> Was there a typical sort of business that a young Russian Jewish man> >> might> >> have been involved with that would have caused his travel to and from> >> Sweden?> >>> >> Would there have been some reason why Karl and Agda would have had a> >> child> >> in Moscow in 1897, married in St. Petersburg in!
1898, then left the> >> country> >> for Sweden where they had another child in Stockholm? Then for them to> >> emigrate to the US two years later?> >>> >> Why would Karl and his second wife, Hilma, have traveled back to Sweden> >> several times?> >>> >> Any input is welcome, especially from anyone with Gettner relatives.> >>> >> Thank you very much for your assistance!> >>> >> Best Wishes,> >>> >> Sheila Andersen> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > To contact the FEEFHS list administrator, send an email to> > .> >> > To post a message to the FEEFHS mailing list, send an email to > > .> >> > __________________________________________________________> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > > of the> > email with no additional text.> >> >> > End of FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7> > ************!
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Mark W. Gardner
|Re: [FEEFHS] FEEFHS Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7 by "Mark W. Gardner" <>|