Archiver > GARDINER > 2011-02 > 1298388677

From: "Sandy Gardiner" <>
Subject: Re: [GARDINER] Stephen Gardiner---documentation
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:31:17 -0500
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In-Reply-To: <>

I have been told that Stephen Gardiner (the Bishop) as a very young man
(married?) in the North of England, had children and then to become
the the man who became the Bishop Gardiner.
He certainly was very intelligent, an adept diplomat, some might even say a
I have pasted some date below that you may find helpful.

Son of Wyllyam Gardynyr and Helen/Ellen Tudor:
William GARDINER 1 was born 1 1488 in London, England. He died 1 1549 in The
Grange, Bermondsey, Surrey, England. William married Elizabeth MITCHELL of
Yorkshire (b. 1488).

William obtained a marriage license 1520.
" William Gardiner, born 1488 in London, lived awhile in Hertfordshire,
England. He married in 1520, in England, Elizabeth Mitchell. There seems to
be only a limited amount of information available on this William Gardiner,
possible brother of Steven, Bishop of Winchester. It is believed that he may
have been the Presbyter at Canterbury who Steven Gardiner stopped by to
visit on one of his trips back from France. It was also brought to the
attention of those sitting in judgment at the Excommunication Trial of
Steven Gardiner, that he had a brother by the name of William, and this
William lived for awhile in Hertfordshire. William married Elizabeth
Mitchell of Yorkshire, and died in Bermondsey, Surrey.

" It is quite probable that William had an older brother since it is an old
English custom to name the second son after his father and the eldest son
after the grandfather, which the Gardiner family has followed with
remarkable consistency down through the generations. The grandfather could
come from either side of the family, as this was not followed quite as
closely as in the use of the father's name. There was a Richard Gardiner,
born about 1486 who was quite prominent in the London area, who may have
been an older member of the family, which I have listed as a probability
since I can find no other who would more easily fit this situation. William
was listed in the service of Henry VIII as "Sargent at Arms."

A Douglas Richardson of Salt Lake City Utah wrote on Aug. 28, 2007: at the
following internet address
Richard Gardiner, born 1486 in London, England; died 1548 in London,
England. This Richard Gardiner may have been the eldest son of William
Gardiner and Helen Tudor. There is no document to prove this assumption. He
may have also been the father of Germain Gardiner (b. 1505) and also of
Richard (b. 1507) Sargeant at Arms to Henry VIII, who was reported to
have been executed for allegedly withholding testimony in the trial of Anne
Bolyn. Since I am unable to identify this person more fully, I (Douglas
Richardson) have not included him and his two sons to definitely be in the
line of descent from William Gardiner and Helen Tudor, although in the book,
STEPHEN GARDINER AND THE TUDOR REACTION, the author mentions Germain as the
nephew of Stephen. In another bit of information on Germain, he was spoken
of as a he was spoken of as a cousin of Stephen, so the exact identity of
these three individuals are not clear.

Steven Gardiner, MAY HAVE BEEN born 1490 in Holborn, London, England; died 2
Nov 1555 in Whitehall, Southwark, Surrey, England. Steven has sometimes been
named as the son of John Gardiner of Bury St. Edmunds, England but there are
several things that do not fit into place on this Stephen. First of all his
first name is spelled differently. The Letters and Papers of Henry VIII, in
the manuscript section of the British Museum use the spelling "Steven
Gardynyr" just the way Steven SIGNED HIS NAME. The man who spelled his name
Stephen was almost out of the time frame in which "Steven" was estimated by
historians to have been born. But, the greatest bit of evidence supporting
"Steven" vs. "Stephen" as the Bishop of Winchester, is James Betham's
Genealogical Table, DCX (610) in the Guildhall Library, London, which gives
Steven's parents as William Gardiner and Helen Tudor. Although the Gardiner
family name has undergone a number of changes down through the ages, as have
all other families, the name is being carried in the computer as Gardiner,
to reduce the possibility of error in the programming of an ancestral line.
As a young man, Steven Gardiner met the famous Humanist and scholar,
Desiderius Erasmus, in Paris and he studied at Trinity Hall, Cambridge. He
received the degree of doctor of civil law in 1520 and of canon law in 1521
and went on to work for Cardinal Thomas Wolsey as secretary, meeting Henry
VIII for the first time in 1525 at The More in Hertfordshire for the signing
of the Treaty of the More between the King and Francis I of France. Two
years later, in 1527, Gardiner and Sir Thomas More worked as commissioners
in arranging, with the French ambassadors, a treaty to obtain support for an
army against the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, in Italy.
1527, Gardiner accompanied his master, Wolsey, on a diplomatic mission to
France to gain the French King's support for the King's Great Matter or
"secret matter", his wish to divorce Catherine of Aragon. A year later,
Gardiner was sent to Italy with Edward Foxe, the provost of King's College,
Cambridge, to secure a decretal commission from the Pope which would allow
Cardinal Wolsey to rule on the validity of the King's marriage without
appeal to Rome. Although Gardiner was an expert on canon law, and so was at
a great advantage, Pope Clement VII had recently been imprisoned by Charles
V's troops and was wary of offending the Emperor who was Catherine of Aragon's
nephew and so refused to grant the decretal commission and, instead, granted
a general commission to allow Cardinal Wolsey to try the case in England
with the Papal Legate, Cardinal Campeggio..
Stephen Gardiner
. According to the book HENRY VIII THE KING AND HIS COURT, by Alison Weir,
Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester, married Henry VIII and Jane Seymour,
May 30, 1536, Whitehall Palace, and Henry VIII and Katherine Parr, July 12,
1543, Hampton Court Palace. When Henry VIII died Stephen Gardiner preached
the sermon and conducted the requiem mass at St. George's Chapel, Windsor,
February 14, 1547. He crowned Mary 1 "Bloody Mary" , July 19, 1553,
Westminster Abbey.

SOME SAY that Steven married Margaret Grey (b. 1486 in Wilton,
Herefordshire, England)
This marriage supposedly took place in 1509 at Berwick Upon Tweed,
Northumberland, England.
That is just south of the Scottish border.
Steven would have been about 16 years old. She would have been about 23
years old.

Supposedly he had a son named George Gardiner born 1510, and died 1548 in
Berwick Upon Tweed. George married Margaret Neville b. 1515 in Durham,
England, d. 1549 in Shoreditch, London at 34 years old.

He became a dedicated Catholic cleric, during the time of Henry the 8th. He
was a clever diplomate and did what he had to do though he may have been
holding his nose while he did it.

He MAY HAVE BEEN born in 1493 at Bury St. Edmunds, Lancashire, England
He died 12 Nov. 1555 at Whitehall, Middlesex, England at about 62 years old.
He is buried in Winchester Cathedral.
So William Gardiner was possibly the brother of Steven Gardiner, the Bishop
of Winchester, b.1490 in Holborn, London. (I will spell his name as Steven ,
even though most spell his name Stephen because he signed his own name as
"Steven Gardynyr" on many State papers of Henry VIII.
[There is a story going around that Stephen Gardiner's father was a John
Gardiner, a "Clothworker", from Bury St. Edmonds, Suffolk. . Others call the
father of William and Steven Gardiner - William John Gardiner a cloth
merchant from London. It is clear that Steven was a very intelligent,
politically astute and powerful individual. It is unlikely he came from
humble beginning.]

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [GARDINER] Stephen Gardiner---documentation

> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
> Author: ariabellafarm
> Surnames:
> Classification: queries
> Message Board URL:
> Message Board Post:
> Sorry to revive an old thread, but I am struggling with the same issue. I
> am also looking for the father of George Gardiner. Supposedly George
> Gardiner married Margaret Neville (though her parentage seems questionable
> as well from any official sources I can find) and he was the son of
> Stephen Gardiner and Margaret Grey. There are many, many trees on Ancestry
> showing this, and none that I've seen with an alternative.
> I think it is _highly_ unlikely (probably impossible) that Bishop Stephen
> Gardiner is the right father here. He was a Catholic bishop, and though
> religious times were tumultous, he wouldn't have been the bishop and
> marrying anyone. Of course he could have had illegitimate offspring, but
> it seems unlikely that we would see that cheerfully documented with a
> marriage date! Perhaps the right person is a brother or cousin? I would be
> very interested to hear if anyone else has new information on this or any
> ideas of somewhere else to look.
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