Archiver > GEN-ANCIENT > 2004-03 > 1079235800

From: "Chris Bennett" <>
Subject: Re: [GEN-ANCIENT] Re: Mesopotamia - A DFA?
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:43:20 -0800
References: <003c01c4086f$49a41a60$99b3fea9@jl>

Which one? There were several.

If you mean the "Gobryas" referred to in Ford's listing, that would be Ugbaru. With the exception of the statement about Nabu-balatsu-iqbi, what he says reflects my opinion and I have nothing to add to it.

You asked me offline for my opinion about Settipani's view that al-Tabari's statement that Darius the Mede was a nephew of Nebichahdnezzar is a late legend of no value. Settipani made that statement without considering al-Tabari's statement within the context of the totality of the evidence about these individuals. My opinion is that al-Tabari's statement is quite possibly an accurate reflection of Ugbaru's relationship to Nebuchhadnezzar. Its hardly a certainty, but its quite possible.


----- Original Message -----
From: jl
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [GEN-ANCIENT] Re: Mesopotamia - A DFA?

could we have an ATT of Gobryas just to be more clear PLEASE

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Bennett" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [GEN-ANCIENT] Re: Mesopotamia - A DFA?

> First, the statement about Nabu-balatsu-iqbi doesn't come from me. The
chart in my article shows him only as the father of Nabonidus.
> The reasoning behind the rest is not easy to summarise.
> The two basic data items are Xenophon's Cyropedia, which has Hytaspes,
father of Darius, marry a daughter of Gobryas, described as an Assyrian
(i.e. Babylonian) nobleman who had assisted Cyrus in capturing the city and
as having personally killed the king; and a statement in al-Tabari (which I
first got from Settipani's LGA) that Darius the Mede, who ruled over
Babylonia and Syria and had personally killed Belshazzar, was a nephew of
> The article considers the various staries about Gobryases/Gubarus/Ugabarus
and Darius the Mede mentioned in Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Jewish and
Arabic records and traditions, and tries to sort out what data items are
authentic history, which Gubaru or Ugbaru they belong to, and how they are
related. It concludes that both these items make good sense if they both
apply to Ugbaru, governor of Gutium, who assisted Cyrus in the capture of
Babylon and died shortly afterwards. This makes Ugbaru the nephew of
Nebuchadnezzar, father in law of Hystaspes, and presumably grandfather of
> If you are interested I can send you a PDF of my source file, though the
pagination doesn't correspond to JAMS (Journal of Ancient and Medieval
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The Williams Family
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:09 AM
> Subject: [GEN-ANCIENT] Re: Mesopotamia - A DFA?
> Hello,
> Bravo for posting this! I've never seen a line, even a theoretical
one, back to the ancient Babylonians before. I do have a couple of
questions though: From Settipani one reconstruct the line back to
Gobryas/Goubarou, Governor of Babylon (d. 7 Nov 539), this would be on pp.
145-146. What is your (or Chris Bennett's) source and/or reasoning for his
marriage to a daughter of Nabû-balatsu-iqbi and his being a grandson of
Nabû-apla-usur. Are
> there sources directly stating this or is has this connection been
contructed from indirect evidence?
> Also, could you post fuller citations for some of your references?
I know I've seen _JAMS_ referred to before but I can't think of what it
stands for and I am unfamiliar with the Hittite sources (Gurney, MacQueen
and Trevor Bryce). Thanks!
> Sincerely,
> Kelsey J. Williams
> >
> >
> > Submitted purely for discussion. I shall add to this over time, and
> > like to see others put their two bits, (or $million), into it. Please
> > the time that I am sending this, and excuse any typos. Any omissions
are to
> > be discussed and debated.
> >
> > Line 'A' - Based mostly upon Chris Bennett's piece in _JAMS_ XII,
> > Settipani's _Nos Ancêtres..._, and mine own in _JAMS_ III & IV
> >
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Nabû-kudur-usur, (Nebuchadrezzar)
> > Bel-ibni, Gov. Sealand ca. 650-26
> > Nabû-apla-usur, (Nabopolassar), II, K. Chaldea 626-05, K. Akkad &
> > 625-05
> > anonymus of Babylon
> > Gobryas, Gov. Babylon 540, ob. 539, m. dt. Nabû-balatsu-iqbi of
> > (line 'B')
> > Rhodogun of Babylon, m. Vishtasp, Sat. Hyrkania & Parthia
> > DARIUS I, Great King of Kings of Persia
> <snip>
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