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Archiver > GEN-ANCIENT > 2004-04 > 1082082925


From: "~Ford~" <>
Subject: Re: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:41:39 -0500
References: <00dd01c422b5$d07303c0$0500a8c0@SAINTNINO>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Clark Campbell" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, 15 April, 2004 01:49
Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was:
Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]


> Thanks, I'll look forward to it!
>
> I have a couple of possible lines from Georgia's early kings to later
> English (and French et al.) ones (as well as, of course, Byzantine
> Emperors and Armenian kings), but will post on Gen-Medieval as soon as I
> can get it together.


Why not post it here as well?


> I'd be interested in whether they're verifiable.
> Unfortunately, due to all the 40+ invasions of Georgia over the last
> 3,000+ years, written records are mostly destroyed.
>
> Besides the Babylonian-exile-era settlement in Georgia by the Jews,
> Georgia's history includes pre-classical Greek colonization; Roman
> domination; invasions/control by Persians, Mongols, Arabs, Turks,
> Russians, etc. Strangely, the Georgians survive with an intact culture
> and arguably non-Indo European language, surviving artifacts of wine
> culture from 8,000 years ago which is said to have been the first in
> Europe, and no evidence they ever came from anywhere else -- I joke that
> I've found the original Garden of Eden! The oldest human remains outside
> of Africa, 1.7 million years old, were discovered here a couple of years
> ago in Dmanisi, toward the southern border with Armenia, together with
> remains of rhinoceros, giraffes, etc.
>
> While the human and viniculture remains are apparently scientifically
> verified (interestingly, the Georgian word for "wine" is "ghvino"), the
> undocumented speculation (some more probable than others) goes further
> to suggest that the mountain people, now called Svans, could be the
> descendants of those Sumerians who did not move south (where the
> ziggurats were supposedly, according to this theory, their effort to
> replicate the Caucasus mountains that they missed from their original
> homeland); the Ossetians (now trying to be independent of Georgia in the
> south and Russia in the north), are more credibly claimed to be the
> descendants of the Scythians, who moved across Europe as the Goths; and
> years ago I remember reading in the National Geographic that the Celts
> also originated here and spread across Europe during the last millennium
> B.C. One linguist is trying to document a connection between Gaelic and
> the language of the remaining Udi people (less than 1,000 left) who were
> expelled by Stalin but have returned to their original homeland in East
> Georgia, where the Romans originally called them Albanians (no relation
> to current Albania) and they had a major civilization with its own
> writing system.
>
> Standing in the ruins of the Roman fort that housed the garrison
> responsible for defense of the Black Sea, which Sea itself is only about
> 6,000 years old -- previously a fresh-water lake which is said to have
> become a Sea at the time of the Great Flood when the melting rivers in
> Europe caused the Mediterranean to rise and overflow the Bosporus -- one
> feels how even to the Romans this site of the legendary land where the
> Greeks said Jason and the Argonauts came to find the Golden Fleece was
> ancient. (As late as the 19th century, mountain people are said to have
> "panned" for gold dust by submerging sheep skins in gold-dust-laden
> creeks.) One can picture Prometheus, who legend says gave man fire
> (whose original Georgian name is Amiran), bound upon the Caucasus
> mountains, which rise higher than the Alps, and Medea (still a common
> Georgian name) in that castle the ruins of which remain upon yon lower
> mountain. Most intriguing are the ancient cave cities along the Silk
> Road, with as much as a couple of thousand years of human habitation and
> the remains of elaborate civilizations carved into their walls. In a
> country where a 6th century church, built around a pre-existing pagan
> altar is "new" ... one breathes antiquity. But how, now, can it all
> be documented?
>
> Perhaps it is always meant to be only legend, fantasy, romance, and
> mystery -- where even today a Rose Revolution (in part staged and
> organized by Georgia's great film and theatre producers) symbolized by a
> flag with Templar crosses, moves people to the very depth of their
> being.
>
> Carolyn
>
> Carolyn Clark Campbell
> Tbilisi, Georgia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ~Ford~ [mailto:]
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 8:17 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Gen-Ancient] Edessa, Judea, and Armenia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carolyn Clark Campbell" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 April, 2004 20:38
> Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Edessa, Judea, and Armenia
>
>
> > I'm interested in the reference (below) to the Georgian Bagratids as
> > being of Jewish origin. Does anyone have further information on this?
> >
> > Georgia has a very interesting Jewish history (it is claimed that the
> > Jews first settled here during the Babylonian exile, and the 26th
> > century of their arrival was celebrated here a few years ago), and it
> is
> > a country in which Jews have always been welcomed. (Ariel Sharon is
> of
> > Georgian-Jewish origin.) This might help explain it.
> >
> > Other information on Georgian genealogy welcomed!
> >
> > Carolyn Clark Campbell
> > Tbilisi, Georgia
> >
> >
>
> For the time being, that assertion will have be accepted. Prof. Kelley
> is
> currently working on publishing a piece dealing with this issue. Since
> Don
> Stone is helping somewhat with that endeavor, mayhaps he can better
> address
> that question.
> Sincerely,
> Ford
>
>
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