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Archiver > GEN-ANCIENT > 2004-04 > 1082246376


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:59:41 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <001b01c424af$2b7919d0$0500a8c0@SAINTNINO>



As far as I can tell your dating is correct.

fa

--- Carolyn Clark Campbell <>
escreveu: > By the way, the people you refer to as the
Alans,
> also called Alanni,
> are the ancestors of today's Ossetians, who still
> live in Georgia and
> Russia (South and North of the Caucasus). I thought
> they did not go to
> Spain until around the 5th Century A.D.
>
> Carolyn
>
> Carolyn Clark Campbell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francisco Antonio Doria
> [mailto:]
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 5:00 PM
> To: ;
> Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus -
> Garden of Eden?
> [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
>
>
> Dear Carolyn,
>
> I must say I'm having trouble following you. Basque
> is
> an isolated language, perhaps related to another
> isolated language in mid-Asia, while the Celtic
> group
> is derived from the indo-european (or indo-hittite)
> family.
>
> It is conjectured that the name Iberia was carried
> from Eastern Iberia to Spain by the Alans; the name
> Galicia to Galiza in Northern Portugal was again
> derived from some similar migratory movement.
>
> The Basque people, again, is *very* isolated: one of
> their genetic characteristics is the Rh negative
> blood
> group.
>
> fa
>
>
> --- Carolyn Clark Campbell <>
> escreveu: > This potential Basque-Celtic connection
> is
> very
> > interesting indeed.
> > When my husband and I first came to Georgia a few
> > years ago, we were
> > told that the only hypothetical connections
> between
> > the Georgian
> > language group (which includes Georgian,
> Mingrelian,
> > Svan and Tsan, and
> > Georgian-Jewish [a dialect of Georgian as Yiddish
> is
> > of German and
> > Ladino of Spanish] -- all languages restricted to
> > the Caucasus region)
> > are Basque and Gaelic. Since then, we have heard
> > that some linguists
> > have pooh-poohed the potential Gaelic and/or
> Basque
> > connections with
> > Georgian -- now if they are connected with each
> > other that adds to the
> > sense that there could be possible connections of
> > Georgian with both.
> >
> > The potential Basque connection with the Georgians
> > is intriguing ...
> > we've always been puzzled as to why ancient East
> > Georgia (which is where
> > the Udi live) was called Iberia, a term now used
> for
> > Spain, although one
> > theory was that the Romans simply used the term
> for
> > "a far-away place,"
> > which, of course, both Georgia and Spain were
> > vis-à-vis ancient Rome. It
> > would make sense that people from the Caucasus
> might
> > want to settle in
> > the Pyrenees, just as my Scottish ancestors were
> > attracted to the
> > mountains of North Carolina (many places in
> Georgia
> > remind me of both
> > Scotland and North Carolina).
> >
> > My friend who's been working with the Udi people
> > here actually started
> > with Irish voyage origin legends and worked his
> way
> > back through 10
> > locations in the early ballads to the Caucasus.
> It
> > will make an
> > interesting study when he finally gets a chance to
> > write it.
> >
> > At present, all we have is interesting
> speculation,
> > so it would be
> > exciting to get some kind of scientific studies
> (DNA
> > & linguistic) of
> > the people here. Of course, because of all the
> > foreign invasions the
> > genetics of the people here are undoubtedly a vast
> > hodge-podge. I'm told
> > a significant number of newborns here in Georgia
> > carry the "Mongol spot"
> > -- which is common among Hungarians as well -- a
> > large blue bruise-like
> > birthmark in the "small" of the backside below the
> > waist -- an
> > indication of Asian genetic heritage -- I've
> noticed
> > most Korean babies
> > have the same marking, which disappears when they
> > get older. The Mongol
> > invasion of Georgia was so devastating that
> > something like 90% of the
> > people were killed during that period, and the
> > population has never
> > fully recovered in numbers.
> >
> > My husband, who is of Jewish descent (except
> through
> > the
> > paternal-paternal-paternal line, which is Prussian
> > -- hence no Y DNA
> > connection with early Jews, though one culturally
> > inherits "being
> > Jewish" through one's mother), and I, who am
> largely
> > of Celtic descent
> > (both the Clarks and the Campbells came from
> > Scotland), though lots of
> > my lineage is English, both feel absolutely "at
> > home" in this culture --
> > an odd experience in a land with such an alien
> > language. We've traveled
> > to many countries where we've loved the people and
> > their culture, but
> > never before had the "feeling" of almost having
> > re-discovered "home". I
> > keep eerily running into men who look remarkably
> > like they could be my
> > father's brothers, while my husband finds it an
> > extraordinary experience
> > to be warmly welcomed for his Jewish heritage by
> > people who consider
> > "their" Jews to be an important and treasured part
> > of their own culture
> > and history.
> >
> > Europeans who come here immediately identify
> Georgia
> > as obviously
> > European -- the appearance, the demeanor, the
> > intellectual history is so
> > evidently European. Italians write about how
> > Italian the culture seems,
> > but French see how closely it is allied to French
> > culture, and the
> > Germans and Dutch and Scandinavians feel a warm
> > sense of brotherhood
> > with the people. Yet having lived as a part of an
> > Asian family in my
> > early years (my first husband was Korean) I see so
> > many parallels with
> > Asian culture -- a Korean would feel very much at
> > home in Georgian
> > family life ... What is it about this place that
> we
> > all feel such an
> > affinity?
> >
> > (Undoubtedly totally irrelevant: a Malagasque
> friend
> > of mine who spent
> > some time with the Basques, upon seeing photos of
> my
> > grandchildren who
> > are 1/2 Irish, through their father, and 1/4
> Korean,
> > through my
> > daughter, exclaimed -- oh, my! They look exactly
> > like Basque children!)
> >
> > Carolyn Clark Campbell
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===

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