GEN-ANCIENT-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-ANCIENT > 2004-04 > 1082247150


From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:12:32 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <000301c4247a$61d3ff70$0500a8c0@SAINTNINO>


Carolyn,

Georgian is indo-european, as far as I can tell. It is
beyond my reach, however, and even if I'm wrong here,
it definitely isn't related to Basque. The name is
derived from Greek, georgòs, he who tends the land,
farmer.

I'll check it anyway.

For genes & languages see the two books by L.
Cavalli-Sforza.

fa

--- Carolyn Clark Campbell <>
escreveu: > I was responding to the prior message
indicating a
> possible genetic
> connection between Basques and Celts. I am not a
> linguist, but have
> been told of theories that the Georgian language is
> related to either
> Basque or Gaelic. Some have argued that it is not
> an Indo-European
> language, while others have argued that it is. I
> can do nothing more
> than report what I have heard and read, since I am
> no expert.
>
> I am aware of the information about the DNA
> peculiarities of the
> Basques. In one study I read, there was some
> evidence of a possible DNA
> connection between them and people of the North
> Caucasus.
>
> I don't think that the DNA or linguistic connections
> between people in
> the Caucasus have been studied sufficiently to
> include or exclude
> connections between any of the subgroups of the
> Caucasus and either the
> Basque people or Celts. They wouldn't have to both
> be true, or both be
> false.
>
> At this point, anything is only interesting
> speculation. Interesting
> speculation sometimes leads to discoveries;
> sometimes it leads to dead
> ends. As when Schliemann followed an interesting
> speculation to look
> for Troy, I find it useful to not dismiss such
> speculations until they
> are scientifically excluded. After all, at some
> point we're all
> connected, and if we're looking for ancient
> genealogy and genetic
> connections, we have to follow a lot of speculative
> paths or not try at
> all.
>
> Carolyn
>
> Carolyn Clark Campbell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francisco Antonio Doria
> [mailto:]
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 5:00 PM
> To: ;
> Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus -
> Garden of Eden?
> [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
>
>
> Dear Carolyn,
>
> I must say I'm having trouble following you. Basque
> is
> an isolated language, perhaps related to another
> isolated language in mid-Asia, while the Celtic
> group
> is derived from the indo-european (or indo-hittite)
> family.
>
> It is conjectured that the name Iberia was carried
> from Eastern Iberia to Spain by the Alans; the name
> Galicia to Galiza in Northern Portugal was again
> derived from some similar migratory movement.
>
> The Basque people, again, is *very* isolated: one of
> their genetic characteristics is the Rh negative
> blood
> group.
>
> fa
>
>
> --- Carolyn Clark Campbell <>
> escreveu: > This potential Basque-Celtic connection
> is
> very
> > interesting indeed.
> > When my husband and I first came to Georgia a few
> > years ago, we were
> > told that the only hypothetical connections
> between
> > the Georgian
> > language group (which includes Georgian,
> Mingrelian,
> > Svan and Tsan, and
> > Georgian-Jewish [a dialect of Georgian as Yiddish
> is
> > of German and
> > Ladino of Spanish] -- all languages restricted to
> > the Caucasus region)
> > are Basque and Gaelic. Since then, we have heard
> > that some linguists
> > have pooh-poohed the potential Gaelic and/or
> Basque
> > connections with
> > Georgian -- now if they are connected with each
> > other that adds to the
> > sense that there could be possible connections of
> > Georgian with both.
> >
> > The potential Basque connection with the Georgians
> > is intriguing ...
> > we've always been puzzled as to why ancient East
> > Georgia (which is where
> > the Udi live) was called Iberia, a term now used
> for
> > Spain, although one
> > theory was that the Romans simply used the term
> for
> > "a far-away place,"
> > which, of course, both Georgia and Spain were
> > vis-à-vis ancient Rome. It
> > would make sense that people from the Caucasus
> might
> > want to settle in
> > the Pyrenees, just as my Scottish ancestors were
> > attracted to the
> > mountains of North Carolina (many places in
> Georgia
> > remind me of both
> > Scotland and North Carolina).
> >
> > My friend who's been working with the Udi people
> > here actually started
> > with Irish voyage origin legends and worked his
> way
> > back through 10
> > locations in the early ballads to the Caucasus.
> It
> > will make an
> > interesting study when he finally gets a chance to
> > write it.
> >
> > At present, all we have is interesting
> speculation,
> > so it would be
> > exciting to get some kind of scientific studies
> (DNA
> > & linguistic) of
> > the people here. Of course, because of all the
> > foreign invasions the
> > genetics of the people here are undoubtedly a vast
> > hodge-podge. I'm told
> > a significant number of newborns here in Georgia
> > carry the "Mongol spot"
> > -- which is common among Hungarians as well -- a
> > large blue bruise-like
> > birthmark in the "small" of the backside below the
> > waist -- an
> > indication of Asian genetic heritage -- I've
> noticed
> > most Korean babies
> > have the same marking, which disappears when they
> > get older. The Mongol
> > invasion of Georgia was so devastating that
> > something like 90% of the
> > people were killed during that period, and the
> > population has never
> > fully recovered in numbers.
> >
> > My husband, who is of Jewish descent (except
> through
> > the
> > paternal-paternal-paternal line, which is Prussian
> > -- hence no Y DNA
> > connection with early Jews, though one culturally
> > inherits "being
> > Jewish" through one's mother), and I, who am
> largely
> > of Celtic descent
> > (both the Clarks and the Campbells came from
> > Scotland), though lots of
> > my lineage is English, both feel absolutely "at
> > home" in this culture --
> > an odd experience in a land with such an alien
> > language. We've traveled
> > to many countries where we've loved the people and
> > their culture, but
> > never before had the "feeling" of almost having
> > re-discovered "home". I
> > keep eerily running into men who look remarkably
> > like they could be my
> > father's brothers, while my husband finds it an
> > extraordinary experience
> > to be warmly welcomed for his Jewish heritage by
> > people who consider
> > "their" Jews to be an important and treasured part
> > of their own culture
> > and history.
>
=== message truncated ===

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Messenger - Fale com seus amigos online. Instale agora!
http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/

This thread: