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Archiver > GEN-ANCIENT > 2004-04 > 1082262444


From: "Carolyn Clark Campbell" <>
Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:27:24 +0500
In-Reply-To: <20040417235941.43491.qmail@web41701.mail.yahoo.com>


Dear F.A.,

Does this mean that the term "Iberia" with respect to Spain was not used
by the early Greeks, or by the Romans prior to the 5th Century AD? I
had thought it was, but perhaps I am mistaken. Thanks!

I assume this term is completely unrelated to the term "Hibernia," used
(by the Romans?) for Ireland.

I understand your reference to Galatia, Galicia [the apparently Celtic
root word seems to also contribute to the terms "Gaul" "Gallic" and
"Gaelic"] -- and assume you are using this as a parallel illustration,
rather than implying a connection with the term "Iberia".

The history of all the peoples who came TO Spain seems about as diverse
and interesting as the history of all the peoples who went forth FROM
Georgia to other parts of the world. You must find the exploration
fascinating.

Best wishes,

Carolyn

Carolyn Clark Campbell


-----Original Message-----
From: Francisco Antonio Doria
[mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:00 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden?
[Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]


As far as I can tell your dating is correct.

fa

--- Carolyn Clark Campbell <>
escreveu: > By the way, the people you refer to as the
Alans,
> also called Alanni,
> are the ancestors of today's Ossetians, who still
> live in Georgia and
> Russia (South and North of the Caucasus). I thought
> they did not go to
> Spain until around the 5th Century A.D.
>
> Carolyn
>
> Carolyn Clark Campbell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francisco Antonio Doria
> [mailto:]
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 5:00 PM
> To: ;
> Subject: RE: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus -
> Garden of Eden?
> [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
>
>
> Dear Carolyn,
>
> I must say I'm having trouble following you. Basque
> is
> an isolated language, perhaps related to another
> isolated language in mid-Asia, while the Celtic
> group
> is derived from the indo-european (or indo-hittite)
> family.
>
> It is conjectured that the name Iberia was carried
> from Eastern Iberia to Spain by the Alans; the name
> Galicia to Galiza in Northern Portugal was again
> derived from some similar migratory movement.
>
> The Basque people, again, is *very* isolated: one of
> their genetic characteristics is the Rh negative
> blood
> group.
>
> fa
>
>
> --- Carolyn Clark Campbell <>
> escreveu: > This potential Basque-Celtic connection
> is
> very
> > interesting indeed.
> > When my husband and I first came to Georgia a few
> > years ago, we were
> > told that the only hypothetical connections
> between
> > the Georgian
> > language group (which includes Georgian,
> Mingrelian,
> > Svan and Tsan, and
> > Georgian-Jewish [a dialect of Georgian as Yiddish
> is
> > of German and
> > Ladino of Spanish] -- all languages restricted to
> > the Caucasus region)
> > are Basque and Gaelic. Since then, we have heard
> > that some linguists
> > have pooh-poohed the potential Gaelic and/or
> Basque
> > connections with
> > Georgian -- now if they are connected with each
> > other that adds to the
> > sense that there could be possible connections of
> > Georgian with both.
> >
> > The potential Basque connection with the Georgians
> > is intriguing ...
> > we've always been puzzled as to why ancient East
> > Georgia (which is where
> > the Udi live) was called Iberia, a term now used
> for
> > Spain, although one
> > theory was that the Romans simply used the term
> for
> > "a far-away place,"
> > which, of course, both Georgia and Spain were
> > vis-à-vis ancient Rome. It
> > would make sense that people from the Caucasus
> might
> > want to settle in
> > the Pyrenees, just as my Scottish ancestors were
> > attracted to the
> > mountains of North Carolina (many places in
> Georgia
> > remind me of both
> > Scotland and North Carolina).
> >
> > My friend who's been working with the Udi people
> > here actually started
> > with Irish voyage origin legends and worked his
> way
> > back through 10
> > locations in the early ballads to the Caucasus.
> It
> > will make an
> > interesting study when he finally gets a chance to
> > write it.
> >
> > At present, all we have is interesting
> speculation,
> > so it would be
> > exciting to get some kind of scientific studies
> (DNA
> > & linguistic) of
> > the people here. Of course, because of all the
> > foreign invasions the
> > genetics of the people here are undoubtedly a vast
> > hodge-podge. I'm told
> > a significant number of newborns here in Georgia
> > carry the "Mongol spot"
> > -- which is common among Hungarians as well -- a
> > large blue bruise-like
> > birthmark in the "small" of the backside below the
> > waist -- an
> > indication of Asian genetic heritage -- I've
> noticed
> > most Korean babies
> > have the same marking, which disappears when they
> > get older. The Mongol
> > invasion of Georgia was so devastating that
> > something like 90% of the
> > people were killed during that period, and the
> > population has never
> > fully recovered in numbers.
> >
> > My husband, who is of Jewish descent (except
> through
> > the
> > paternal-paternal-paternal line, which is Prussian
> > -- hence no Y DNA
> > connection with early Jews, though one culturally
> > inherits "being
> > Jewish" through one's mother), and I, who am
> largely
> > of Celtic descent
> > (both the Clarks and the Campbells came from
> > Scotland), though lots of
> > my lineage is English, both feel absolutely "at
> > home" in this culture --
> > an odd experience in a land with such an alien
> > language. We've traveled
> > to many countries where we've loved the people and
> > their culture, but
> > never before had the "feeling" of almost having
> > re-discovered "home". I
> > keep eerily running into men who look remarkably
> > like they could be my
> > father's brothers, while my husband finds it an
> > extraordinary experience
> > to be warmly welcomed for his Jewish heritage by
> > people who consider
> > "their" Jews to be an important and treasured part
> > of their own culture
> > and history.
> >
> > Europeans who come here immediately identify
> Georgia
> > as obviously
> > European -- the appearance, the demeanor, the
> > intellectual history is so
> > evidently European. Italians write about how
> > Italian the culture seems,
> > but French see how closely it is allied to French
> > culture, and the
> > Germans and Dutch and Scandinavians feel a warm
> > sense of brotherhood
> > with the people. Yet having lived as a part of an
> > Asian family in my
> > early years (my first husband was Korean) I see so
> > many parallels with
> > Asian culture -- a Korean would feel very much at
> > home in Georgian
> > family life ... What is it about this place that
> we
> > all feel such an
> > affinity?
> >
> > (Undoubtedly totally irrelevant: a Malagasque
> friend
> > of mine who spent
> > some time with the Basques, upon seeing photos of
> my
> > grandchildren who
> > are 1/2 Irish, through their father, and 1/4
> Korean,
> > through my
> > daughter, exclaimed -- oh, my! They look exactly
> > like Basque children!)
> >
> > Carolyn Clark Campbell
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===

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