GEN-ANCIENT-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-ANCIENT > 2004-04 > 1082395848


From: "Phil Moody" <>
Subject: Re: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:30:48 -0500
References: <20040419091141.21911.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com>


Dear Chico:

> I'll go back to Cavalli-Sforza, because his gene-wave
> analysis, as far as I can recall, doesn't contradict
> the usual ideas on the population of Europe. In
> particular, the indo-european spread by farming, as
> proposed by Colin Renfrew since about 10 000 b.C.E.,
> is confirmed by Cavalli-Sforza's analysis.

PLM: There appears to be a paradox in Cavalli-Sforza conclusions then; because
his genetic testing suggests a relationship between the Basque and Celtic
populations, and I see no rational explanation for this conundrum. One cannot
prove that two cultures share the same genetic background, and then on the
otherhand, suggest that they are not Linguistically related. I still contend
that if the Basque and the Celts share a Common Paternal Ancestry - then it is
logical to suppose they shared a Common Language as well - in the very distant
past. Therefore, I believe the Celtic Languages need to be adjusted on the
Linguistic Tree; so they stem from the Basque (non Indo-European), instead of
their present position as Indo-European. The ancient Historians did not name
the Gauls (Celts) "Foreigners" for no reason, and I believe it is because they
were originally non Indo-European, and therefore unknown to the European World
at that time. Do you not find it a little more than coincidental that Galatia
is not to distant from the territory where the Basque now live, and that
Galatia may take it's name from the original territory of the Gallic race,
whose tribes became dominate on the West Coast of the Continent?

Back to this point in the Wilson, et al Y DNA article.

"The Basques are widely believed to be descended from the Paleolithic
inhabitants of Europe for reasons including the following: (i) Basque is a
non-Indo-European language with some features suggesting a distant
relationship with the North Caucasian language family (30, 31)." EQ

So, if the Basque can be Linguistically connected to the North Caucasian
Language family, then why is it so hard to believe that the Basque can be
related Linguistically to Cultures closer to their homelands; especially when
Y DNA analysis suggests that the Celts and Basque share a common Paternal
ancestry? Linguist will have to address this issue presently, and either
adjust their current theoretical models, or give a rational reason for not
doing so and I don't believe the latter can be done to anyone's satisfaction.
Oh, the references cited above:-)

"30. Gamkrelidze, T. & Ivanov, V. (1990) Sci. Am. 262 (March), 110-116[ISI]."
"31. Bengtson, J. D. (1991) in Sino-Caucasian Languages, ed. Shevoroshkin, V.
(Brockmeyer, Bochum, Germany), pp. 67-172."

The "ISI" is a hyperlink to http://www.isinet.com/ Thomson ISI, but I could
not access the article.

Cheers,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francisco Antonio Doria" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was:
Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]


>
> Dear Phil,
>
> I'll go back to Cavalli-Sforza, because his gene-wave
> analysis, as far as I can recall, doesn't contradict
> the usual ideas on the population of Europe. In
> particular, the indo-european spread by farming, as
> proposed by Colin Renfrew since about 10 000 b.C.E.,
> is confirmed by Cavalli-Sforza's analysis.
>
> And - current status of knowledge (BTW since Schlegel
> in the 19th century, Rask, Saussure, Meillet and
> Vendryes, Benveniste usw) is that the Keltic languages
> are a centum group within the i.-e. family.
>
> fa
>
> --- Phil Moody <> escreveu: > Dear
> Chico:
> >



This thread: