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From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
Subject: Re: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus - Garden of Eden? [Was: Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:32:56 -0300 (ART)
In-Reply-To: <011401c42634$0f62bae0$d1e60d44@tu.ok.cox.net>


Phil,

I have Cavalli-Sforza here, _Genes, Peoples and
Languages_, U of California Press, 2000. The Basque
genetic background is the 5th principal component (in
genetic distribution) in Europe. The i.-e. components
are the 1st, 3rd and 4th. So, they are different.

fa

--- Phil Moody <> escreveu: > Dear
Chico:
>
> > I'll go back to Cavalli-Sforza, because his
> gene-wave
> > analysis, as far as I can recall, doesn't
> contradict
> > the usual ideas on the population of Europe. In
> > particular, the indo-european spread by farming,
> as
> > proposed by Colin Renfrew since about 10 000
> b.C.E.,
> > is confirmed by Cavalli-Sforza's analysis.
>
> PLM: There appears to be a paradox in Cavalli-Sforza
> conclusions then; because
> his genetic testing suggests a relationship between
> the Basque and Celtic
> populations, and I see no rational explanation for
> this conundrum. One cannot
> prove that two cultures share the same genetic
> background, and then on the
> otherhand, suggest that they are not Linguistically
> related. I still contend
> that if the Basque and the Celts share a Common
> Paternal Ancestry - then it is
> logical to suppose they shared a Common Language as
> well - in the very distant
> past. Therefore, I believe the Celtic Languages need
> to be adjusted on the
> Linguistic Tree; so they stem from the Basque (non
> Indo-European), instead of
> their present position as Indo-European. The ancient
> Historians did not name
> the Gauls (Celts) "Foreigners" for no reason, and I
> believe it is because they
> were originally non Indo-European, and therefore
> unknown to the European World
> at that time. Do you not find it a little more than
> coincidental that Galatia
> is not to distant from the territory where the
> Basque now live, and that
> Galatia may take it's name from the original
> territory of the Gallic race,
> whose tribes became dominate on the West Coast of
> the Continent?
>
> Back to this point in the Wilson, et al Y DNA
> article.
>
> "The Basques are widely believed to be descended
> from the Paleolithic
> inhabitants of Europe for reasons including the
> following: (i) Basque is a
> non-Indo-European language with some features
> suggesting a distant
> relationship with the North Caucasian language
> family (30, 31)." EQ
>
> So, if the Basque can be Linguistically connected to
> the North Caucasian
> Language family, then why is it so hard to believe
> that the Basque can be
> related Linguistically to Cultures closer to their
> homelands; especially when
> Y DNA analysis suggests that the Celts and Basque
> share a common Paternal
> ancestry? Linguist will have to address this issue
> presently, and either
> adjust their current theoretical models, or give a
> rational reason for not
> doing so and I don't believe the latter can be done
> to anyone's satisfaction.
> Oh, the references cited above:-)
>
> "30. Gamkrelidze, T. & Ivanov, V. (1990) Sci. Am.
> 262 (March), 110-116[ISI]."
> "31. Bengtson, J. D. (1991) in Sino-Caucasian
> Languages, ed. Shevoroshkin, V.
> (Brockmeyer, Bochum, Germany), pp. 67-172."
>
> The "ISI" is a hyperlink to http://www.isinet.com/
> Thomson ISI, but I could
> not access the article.
>
> Cheers,
> Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Francisco Antonio Doria"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 4:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gen-Ancient] Georgia & the Caucasus -
> Garden of Eden? [Was:
> Edessa, Judea, and Armenia]
>
>
> >
> > Dear Phil,
> >
> > I'll go back to Cavalli-Sforza, because his
> gene-wave
> > analysis, as far as I can recall, doesn't
> contradict
> > the usual ideas on the population of Europe. In
> > particular, the indo-european spread by farming,
> as
> > proposed by Colin Renfrew since about 10 000
> b.C.E.,
> > is confirmed by Cavalli-Sforza's analysis.
> >
> > And - current status of knowledge (BTW since
> Schlegel
> > in the 19th century, Rask, Saussure, Meillet and
> > Vendryes, Benveniste usw) is that the Keltic
> languages
> > are a centum group within the i.-e. family.
> >
> > fa
> >
> > --- Phil Moody <> escreveu: >
> Dear
> > Chico:
> > >
>
>
>
>
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