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Archiver > GEN-ITALIAN > 2001-11 > 1004832249


From: "GeeTee" <>
Subject: Re: INSUBRES where from
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:04:09 +1100
References: <SPCE7.3446$w61.157203@ozemail.com.au>, <954.707T2979T7236842h.seldon@inwind.it>, <Pk%E7.3939$w61.187446@ozemail.com.au>


Here is a bit more.

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Celts

The oldest surviving references to the Celts are very brief and purely
casual. Herodotus, writing in the mid-fifth century BC mentions them in
connection with the whereabouts of the source of the Danube, and Hecataeus,
who flourished somewhat earlier (c. 540-475 BC) but whose works is only
known from later quotations, described the Greek colony of Massilia
(Marseilles) as having been founded in the land of the Ligurians near the
land of the Celts. Hecataeus elsewhere mentions a Celtic town called Nyrax,
and this place seems best to be identified with Noreia in the ancient region
of Styria in Austria. Herodotus is not primarily concerned with either the
source of the Danube or with the Celts in his surviving work The Histories.
This is a misfortune for his account of peoples of whom he has first hand
knowledge, especially the Scythians, has been shown, with the aid of
archaeology to be of great value. What does seem important is that both he
and Hecataeus could already mention the Celts to the Greeks without any need
of explanation. It seems safe then to deduce that, at the time of Herodotus,
the Greeks recognized the Celts to be a major barbarian people living west
and north of the Western Mediterranean and beyond the Alps. Ephorus, writing
in the 4th century BC, counted the Celts among the four great barbarian
peoples of the known world. The other three were the Scythians, Persians and
Libyans. The geographer Eratosthenes, in the following century, showed them
as widespread in Western and trans-Alpine Europe.

Following the Classical historians, we can make a brief summary of the
intrusion of the Celts on the literate world of the Mediterranean.

About a quarter of a century after the death of Herodotus, Northern
Italy was invaded by barbarians coming through the Alpine passes. These
invaders were Celts as is shown by their names and description, but the
Romans called them Galli from which Gallia Cis- and Trans-Alpina were
derived. Polybius writing more than 2 centuries later refers to the invaders
as Galatae and this word was widely used by Greek writers. On the other
hand, it was recognized by Diodorus Siculus, Caesar, Strabo, and Pausanias,
that Galli and Galatae were eqivalent names for Keltoi/Celtae, and Caesar
makes it clear that the Galli of his time knew themselves by the name
Celtae. Diodorus used these names indiscriminately but considered Keltoi the
more correct word. Strabo says this word was known to the Greeks because of
these people living behind Massilia. Pausanias, too, gives prior antiquity
to Celts rather than to Galatians or Gauls. It would probably be impossible
to unravel the true story of this ambiguity in names. It is safe to conclude
however, that the Celts long continued to regard themselves by this name
however many other names within their nation may have come to the fore from
the 5th century BC.

The Galli or Gauls, as is the better known English version, settled in
Italy first in the upper valley of the Po and its tributaries. They
proceeded to first overrun the Etruscans. That they knew of the Etruscans
and had traded with them over a long period of time is well demonstrated by
the archaeological evidence.

The later Roman historians thought that these Celtic invaders had come
from the northwest, from Gallia Transalpina as known from the 2nd century
BC. The archaeological evidence is the invaders had come the way of the
central Alpine passes and that their home had lain in Switzerland and
Southern Germany. The names of the principal invading tribes are recorded.
The Insubres are reported as the first arrivals and they eventually
established their center at a place they called Mediolanum, the forerunner
of Milan.

The Insubres were followed by at least four other tribes who settled
in Lombardy. Later comers were the Boii and Lingones who had to pass through
this region to find room in Emilia and the latest immigrants, the Senones,
settled in less rich land along the Adriatic coast of Umbria. Not only did
the Celtic invaders move as would be settlers with their families and
possessions, but fast moving warrior bands raided far to the south. Apulia
and even Sicily were reached and Rome was a prime target from its successful
sacking about 390 BC to the decisive battle of Telamon in 225BC when a vast
Gaulish army, including warriors freshly brought from beyond the Alps, was
caught between two Roman forces and defeated. The end of Cisapline Gaulish
independence came only in 192 BC when the Romans defeated the Boii at their
stronghold....a place that was to become modern Bologna.



--
Dr. George Tsambourakis
343 Major's Line Road
Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia

"GeeTee" <> wrote in message
news:Pk%E7.3939$...
> Yes, AD should read BC 9my mistake)
>
> Maybe this will help.
>
>
> after the Second Punic War: Northern Italy
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> a.. Northern Italy consisted at that time of:
> b.. Cisalpine Gaul: -Insubres, Cenomani, Boii (199-191); Roads /
Colonies
> (Cremona, Placentia, Parma, Bononia, Mutina)
> c.. Liguria (roughly from Genoa to Turin and west to Aix-en-Provence and
> Nice), namely Hannibal's route to Italy, was brought under Roman control
> (186-175): starvation, deportation
> During Hannibal's invasion of Italy, the Insubres and Boii, Gallic peoples
> in the Po valley, had joined the Carthaginians against Rome.
>
> Hamilcar, Hannibal's diplomatic agent, had stayed in N. Italy. Hamilcar
> persuaded the Insubres to attack while the Romans were busy in Greece. In
> 200 the Gauls (the Boii, Insubres, and Cenomani) and Ligurians combined
> forces and sacked the Latin colony of Placentia (Piacenza, the old Latin
> colony) in an attempt to drive the Romans out of their lands. The praetor
L.
> Furius Purpureo saved Cremona in 202, defeated the Gauls, who had 35,000
> slain (including Hamilcar), and eventually lost half their territory,
which
> was given to colonists. In the following years consular armies repeatedly
> attacked the Gauls. , but two years later they had by the Roman army
>
> 197 Roman success in Greece, renewed efforts in Gaul. Hamilcar organizing
> Gallic raid. M. Cornelius Cethegus and Cenomani defeated Insubres near
> Mantua. Skirmishes with Ligurians.
>
> 196 M. Claudius Marcellus' final victory over Insubres near Lake Como.
> Insubres signed treaty (including promise that they would never have Roman
> citizenship). Italians started settling near Milan - Area 'italianized'
> within a century
> Boii S of Po attacked Marcellus on return, to little effect
>
> In 194 Lucius Valerius Flaccus won a decisive victory over the Insubres;
in
> 192 the leading Boii under severe pressure went over to the Roman side,
> signaling the coming defeat of their tribe. Following their victories, the
> Romans sent thousands of new colonists to the Po valley to reinforce the
> older colonies of Placentia and Cremona (190) and to establish new
colonies,
> notably Bononia (189) and Aquileia (181). During the same period the
Romans
> were at war with the Ligurian tribes of the northern Appennines. The
serious
> effort began in 182, when both consular armies and a proconsular army were
> sent against the Ligurians. The wars continued into the 150s, when
> victorious generals celebrated two triumphs over the Ligurians. Here also
> the Romans drove many natives off their land and settled colonies in their
> stead (e.g., Luna and Luca in the 170s).
>
> 194, 193, 192 Some fighting with Boii
>
> 193-191 Guerilla warfare vs. Ligurians (Q. Minucius Thermus)
>
> 191 Scipio Nasica invaded territory of Boii, big victory. Romans took
> Bologna (Bononia) with half or more of territory of Boii
>
> Within a decade after her victory in the Second Punic War, Rome had at
last
> gained dominance over the quarrelsome Gauls in valley of the river Po and
> their equally hostile neighbours, the Ligurians, in north-western Italy.
> Soon Roman roads and military colonies were rendering the north of Italy
as
> secure as any part of the peninsula. Before long the whole of what had
been
> the Gallic and Ligurian area, independent of Roman authority, was
> transformed into a Roman province of Gallia Cisalpina (Cisalpine Gaul)
> which, with peace established, soon began to prove a highly flourishing
> area. Rome wanted to protect existing military roads (Genoa to Milan /
Luna
> to Piacenza / Florence to Bologna) and wanted to build a new road, Pisa to
> Luna to Genoa, continue west to Spain if possible
>
> In Liguria in 173 BC Roman consul Popillius Laenas subjugated the
Statielli;
> after they capitulated and were disarmed, he destroyed their town and sold
> them as slaves and their property. The senate ordered him to release the
> prisoners and restore their property; but Laenas, escaping punishment
> himself, kept many as slaves, and the rest were deported north of the Po
> River.
>
>
> --
> Dr. George Tsambourakis
> 343 Major's Line Road
> Tooborac, Victoria 3522, Australia
>
> "Fabio Benedetti" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > Ciao GeeTee,
> >
> > >The above is also not correct.
> >
> > See John's message, he answered for me too.
> >
> > >How come that there are so many Roman Emperors that are not Italian if
> the
> > >citizenship was only for those born in Italy?
> >
> > You were talking about a different time. How could they get the
> > citizenship of Roman Empire, if the empire was still to come ?
> >
> > >Especially at a time when Italy did not exist?
> >
> > It's wrong. Augustus, by his act called "coniuratio totiae *Italiae*"
> > (->oath of all Italy) gave citizenship to ALL inhabitants of
> > Italy. The feeling of "Italy" being a region different from others
> > was very known and it depends from cultural reasons, so it is rather
> > easy to understand the reasons of it.
> >
> > People living in Italy, got the Roman citizenship and became citizen of
> > Roman-State. In other words, the Roman state was Italy itself.
> >
> > Saluti.
> >
> > --
> > _
> > Fa/_)io
> > /__)enedetti
> >
> > /...qan mi soven dels bels digz amoros e dels plazers qe.m saubetz far/
> >
>
>


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