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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-06 > 0802901539


Subject: Re: A NEW HOME FOR THOSE ERRONEOUS ANCESTORS
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 23:12:19 +0300


In article <>, wrote:

> In article <> (Tom Camfield)
writes:
> >For those of you who may have copied out the descent from Fergus Mor Mac
> >Earca to Malcolm II that I had erroneously (it now seems apparent) applied
> >to the Bruce ancestry--(snip) find a new home for this crowd.
> >I'm applying it to the Dunbar ancestry of Sir James Hamilton myself
> >(Malcolm II's OTHER daughter Bethoc m. Crian the Thane (snip)

Lest I create the wrong impression with the foregoing comment, while
deleting this ancestry from the earliest Bruce ancestry, I am also
reapplying it (by reference) to a later portion of the Bruce line. This
continues down from Malcolm II to daughter Bethoc, to son Duncan I, to son
Malcolm III, to son David I, to daughter Isabaella (who m. Robert the
Bruce), to son Robert Bruce (m. Isabel de Clare).

> Well, I have a mention of "Milcolmbus's" daughter "Beatrix", who married
> "Albanach (Grimus)" (aka Crinan/Cronan), "Thane of the Scots Isles and
> hereditary Lay Abbot of Dunkeld" (methinks the book author got stuck with the
> Latin forms of names...); their son was Duncan I (who was killed by MacBeth);
> his son, Malcolm III had a daughter, Eadgyth/Matilda, who married Henry I
> Beauclerk of England and thus brings in all of the fun descendants of Henry I
> and Henry II. :-)

I take this line back to Henry I all right--but do not include his
parentage, etc. For instance, no Willie the Conqueror. The proper ancestry
continues back through his wife Matilda. And one cannot necessarily claim
all of his fun descendants, particularly after reaching such disputed
points as Edward II.

I have differing dates of succession, death in many of the following
generatons. But I don't find that unusual, considering the centuries
involved. Without a reliable source, I don't want to spend time quibbling
over them. Otherwise, your list following reads much the same (I will send
you my completed chapter in a fw days; it includes two short "tree" charts
for Bruce and Dunbar).

> 1. Eaochy Munrevar (Eugenius), King of Dalriada; d. (before 439)

I didn't have this first guy at all

> 2. Erc, King of Dalriada; d. ca. 474
> 3. Fergus Mor; suc. 503; d. 506
> 4. Domangart; suc. 506; d. 511
> 5. Gauran (Gabhran); suc. 535; d. 557
> 6. Aidan; suc. 571; d. 605
> 7. Eocha'-bui ("Yellow-haired"); suc. 605; d. 621

For #7 I also have the note: "King of the Picts."

> 8. Donal-breac (Domnal) ("Freckled"); suc. 637; d. (3?) Dec 642
> 9. Domangart II; suc. 660; d. (murdered) 672
> 10. Eocha'-Rinevel ("Crooked-nose"); suc. 702; d. 705
> 11. Eocha III "the Venomous"; suc. 706; d. 733
> 12a. Aodh-fin (Hugh the High King/Aodhin Arf-hlaith); suc. 739; d. 769
> 13a. Eocha-annuine IV (Achaius); suc. 796; d. 826 m. [14b.]

I go from your 13a, Achaius/Eochaid "the Poisonous," directly to your 14a,
Alpin "the Venomous," King of Argyll, claimed Pictish throne; slain at
Galloway 837 or 841. (Achaius is said to have married a sister of Unuist,
High King of the Picts.

> 12b.Fergus (Urguist), King of Dal Riata; suc. 778
> 13b. Angus II (Oengus, Unuist), King of the Picts, Ard Righ Albann (suc. 821);
> d. 833
> 14b. Fergusia

So what is the significance of the "b" lettering? Just how do I apply these
people?

> 14a. Alpin; suc. 833; d. 836 (832/834); son of [13a.] & [14b.]
> 15. Kenneth Macalpine; suc. 836; King of Scots & Picts (suc.843); d. 859
> 16. Constantine I (II); suc. 863; d. 881 (877)
> 17. Donal IV (II); King of Scots (suc. 889) and Picts (suc. 893); d. 904 (900)
> 18. Malcolm I; suc. 944; d. 953
> 19. Kenneth II; suc. 970 (971); d. 994 (995)
> 20. Malcolm II, King of Scotland; suc. 1003 (1005); b. ca. 954; d. 25 Nov 1034
>
> How's that match up with what you've got?

Basically, we match pretty well. I believe I may have gotten some or most
of my descent from charts on the inside cover of Iain Moncreiffe's
"Highland Clans."
I don't have access to the book right now, so I can't recheck.
I'll wait for you to explain that "b" lettering to me before I complete my
pages and whip you off a copy.
--
Tom Camfield -

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