GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-07 > 0806872021
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Descent from Egypt
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:07:01 GMT
In a previous article, (R. Leutner) says:
>I was further under the impression that the jury is still out (and not
>many alternates left, either, after 1000 years) as to the identity of
>the mother of Charles Constantine, who even today I found identified in
>random reading as a bastard of Blind Louis by an unknown concubine.
>Shucks. That and the bad news about Leo the Wise kind of undermine my
>hopes of making the leap back to Pharaonic times. Well, there's still
>Adam for me, via Dermot MacMurrough! (Isn't there?)
>Any thoughts on Charles Constantine welcome in any case. He and his
>whole environment remain a little out of focus for me, and I am seriously
>curious about sources for his daughter(s), especially what's her name who
>married a Boso.
Both connections largely depend on nomenclature. C.C. was long said to be
bastard of Louis, but this was in part based on his failure to succeed to
his father's larger territories. This had as much to do with his fathers
defeats at the hands of Berenger and Hugh as anything else. Since
Constantine had not appeared among the Carolingian dynasties as a name.
The connection with Louis's Byzantine wife Anna was proposed, and has
gained wide acceptance. (I have noticed that this requires a major
revision of C.C.'s chronology from that of his bastard days, but have not
looked into it in any detail.
The connection with Constance, wife of Boso,is based on the same
nomentclature, the name Constance being previously unknown, or at least
rare, and sharing the same root as Constantine. (I think it is a similar
nomenclatural argument that places Constance, first Countess of Dammartin
as daughter of Robert II.) This is both more recent, and less well
propagated, although its appearance in Brook's summary of Byzantine
descents has brought it to the attention of many.
The arguments for the first sort of stand on their own, and I am sure
that there is not enough documentation to either prove or disprove the
connection of C.C. to Anna. You just have to make up your own mind on
the nomenclature issue. As to the C.C. Constance connection, I have not
managed to track down the original references in order to learn what
arguments, in addition to nomenclature, are used.
(Actually, the Leo the Wise problem is not as bad as it seems, as Michael
the Stammerer appears to have been a Mamikonid kinsman of Basil the
>> One problem with this descent is that there are serious doubts that Leo VI
>> the Wise (93) was son of Basil I the Macedonian, (92) and not Michael
>> (III?) the Stammerer, whose mistress was Basil's wife, and Leo's mother.
|Re: Descent from Egypt by "Todd A. Farmerie" <>|