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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-12 > 0818334422


From: Tom Bjornstad <>
Subject: Re: Viking Dublin
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:07:02 GMT


On Sun, 3 Dec 1995 08:13:00 EST, Jim Stevens <>
wrote:

> >Stewart Baldwin
> > recently replied to Todd Farmerie's post :
>
> >Todd A. Farmerie () wrote:
> >: But as long as we are here, Alf Smith (sp?) in his work on the vikings of
> >: Dublin and York concluded that Sigtrygg Coach, father of Olaf Kvaran, was
>
> (snip)
>
> > which can be considered as definitely proven. Assuming
> >that the statements of the Irish annals that Sigtrygg was the
> >grandson of Ivar (d. 873) are correct, which seems like a
> >reasonable starting point, there seem to be seven main
> >possibilities of which I am aware.
>
> I ran accross another couple possibilities in my research.
>
> "Colonial and Revolutionary Lineages in America" shows him as the son of
> an unnamed daughter of Ivar, the son of Ragnar Lodbrok. His father is
> given as "The Earl of the Hebrides".
>
> In his excellent book, "A History of the Vikings", Gwyn Jones states
> that he is of the opinion that Ragnar Lodbrok is almost certainly a
> legendary figure. He is doubtful that Ivar the Boneless was his son or that
> the Ivar of Dublin was the same person as Ivar the boneless. He beleives
> that Sigtrygg's father was one Rognvald, a king in Northumbria, who died in
> 921. More specifically Jones' genealogy is as follows :

I will fully agree upon that Ragnar Lodbrok never has been the father
of Ivar "the Boneless". Ivar, who died in 873, most likely was either
the brother or half brother of Olav "the White" who also died in 873,
tough some earlier.

The story tells that Olav was the one that concurred Dublin (852) to
become King. However he went back (871) to Norway to help his father
in a fight which both died in (873). Ivar took over (871) as King
when his brother(?) left for Norway.

After Ivar's death in 873 there was a period of 40 years with more or
less peace, but in the early 900's came new attacks which made Ivar's
descendants the rulers again. They ruled for almost 2-300 years.

Probably were their father Ragnvald Olavsson "Heidumhair" ("the
Honorable"), maybe a son of Olav Godredson "Geirstad-alv".

> Rognvald, a king of Northumbria (d.921)
> Guthfrith, king of Dublin (d.934)
> Olaf, king of Dublin
> Analf
> Rognvald, king of York
> Sigtrygg Gale [Coach?], king of Dublin & York
> Olaf Kvaran, king of Dublin & York
>
> That brings me to the real reason for this posting. I would like to
> inquire into the even mistier Viking past. What is the current thinking on
> the reality of Ragnar Lodbrok, said to have been a king in Norway and
> Denmark in the early ninth century, and of his son of legend, Ivar the
> Boneless. If real at all, do they have any relation to the Dublin Vikings

According to my information Ragnar Lodbrok died in 865, the same year
as Halvdan "the Black" died. Halvdan ruled most of the east par of
Norway at that time and was likely to be a much younger half brother
of Olav "Geirstad-alv".

To my knowledge there is no evidence of Ragnar Lodbrok ruling in
Norway (which however not yet had come together as country at all) at
all. If he ever did this must have been in a very small part of
"Viken" and for a very short period too.

> I have seen Sigtrygg Coach referred to also as Sigtrygg Gale. Are both
> equally correct ?

They are! "Gale" means the mad or crazy.

> Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! () Jim

Regards...
Tom Bjornstad <>

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