GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-03 > 0858295182
From: Jim Stevens <>
Subject: Re: William de Montferrat
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:19:42 -0500
>Jim Stevens <> wrote:
>>I'm going to try to carry this one step further. According to Allstrom's
>>"Dictionary of Royal lineage" - not a very good source, I know - William
>>the Elder, Marquis of Montferrat married twice: 1.) Sophia, dau. of
>>Frederick Barbarossa; and 2.) Judith, dau. of Leopold III, Mkg. of Austria.
>>I know it has been pointed out in this group before that Barbarossa and
>>his wife Beatrix had no daughter's, only sons. Was Sophia Barbarossa's
>>dau. by his first wife, Adelheid of Vohlburg, or is Allstrom entirely
>>mistaken in stating she was Barbarossa's dau. ? For that matter, do any
>>other sources confirm that William of Montferrat had a wife Sophia prior to
>>his marriage with Judith ?
>This is why Allstrom is not a reliable source. William the Elder
>married only once, to Judith of Austria.
>>I have two other children listed for William - Conrad, King of Jerusalem,
>>and Beatrix, who m. Guiges V, Count of Viennois. Do we know who the mother
>>of each of them was ?
>Yes. Judith of Austria was the mother of Conrad, while Bertha of
>Clavesana was the mother of Beatrix. Bertha was not a daughter of
>William the Elder (d. 1191), she was a daughter of William VI (d.
>1225). William VI was a grandson of William the Elder.
>For all of the above, see the Schwennicke edition of *Europaeische
>Stammtafeln*, Band II, Tafel 200.
>William Addams Reitwiesner
My apologies if I am becoming a pest, but I'm still uneasy about Beatrix of
Montferrat. Allstrom shows TWO of them - BOTH marrying into the Viennois
line - the granmother marrying Guiges I and the the granddaughter marrying
Andre. So, as you said a Beatrix of Montferrat WAS indeed the dau. of
Bertha of Clavesana, but are you sure we are talking about the SAME Beatrix
The three generations under discussion as given by Allstrom:
1.) William III, Marquis of Monferrat m. Judith of Austria - 8 children
listed incl. Conrad, King of Jerusalem, Bonifacio II [next generation], and
Beatrix, who m. Guiges I, Count of Viennois.
2.) Bonifacio II, Marquis of Montferrat (d.1207) m. (1) Margaret of
Hungary and (2) Eleonora of Savoy. Not specified which wife was mother of
3.) William IV, Marquis of Monferrat (d.1225) m. Berthe, dau. of
Bonifacio, Marquis of Gravisane. Three children listed - Bonifacio III,
Alixe, and Beatrix, who m. Andre, dauphin of Viennois.
Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! () Jim