GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-03 > 0859523388
From: "Vickie (Elam) White" <>
Subject: Re: William the Conqueror
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:29:48 EST
D. Spencer Hines wrote --
>Henry II "The Lion in Winter" would undoubtedly love all the attention
>he gets nowadays. He certainly got little respect from his three sons.
>Perhaps Rosamond Clifford, who was reportedly his lover from 1166 to her
>death in 1177, [contrary to the previously expressed opinions of Walter
>Lee Sheppard, Todd A. Farmerie and Stewart Baldwin] would probably glory
>in it too.
I responded --
>I don't recall anyone [sic] claiming that Rosamond was not Henry's lover.
>Rather,it was the claim that she was the mother of Williaim LONGESPEE
>that was in dispute.
D. Spencer Hines responded --
>Please read precisely what I wrote. The words speak clearly for
>themselves---if read closely. Actually, other issues were in dispute,
>rather than the one you call out---and they were of more immediate
>critical importance as well. The relevant posts are all archived in Deja
No, they do not speak clearly. Actually, you wrote a very long message
in which you claimed that it is not possible to exclude Rosamonde as a
candidate for the mother of William LONGESPEE because no hard evidence
has been put forth about when she first became Henry II's lover and that
William's birthdate is unknown. Therefore, you should say that there were
other issues IN ADDITION to, not rather than... If you insist on picking
nits, pick some of your own as well.
Now, the above quote from you seems to indicate that either you are of the
opinion that Walter Lee Sheppard, Todd A. Farmerie and Stewart Baldwin
doubt that she was Henry II's lover, or that they doubt the dates of the
love affair. All right, I'll give you a chance to explain what you mean
by "reportedly his lover from 1166 to her death in 1177..." If you are
claiming that they doubt she was Henry's lover, I challenge that. I
cannot recall a single statement to that effect. If you are claiming that
your dates differ from their dates, aren't you the one who took us to task
about dating the affair, since we were not present in their bedroom?
And, by the way, Henry II got plenty of respect from his bastard son
Geoffrey. Perhaps you should have written that he got little respect from
three OF his sons. Those nits again.
Vickie (Elam) White
|Re: William the Conqueror by "Vickie (Elam) White" <>|