GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-05 > 0863204114
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Subject: Re: Ebles Mamzer and his name
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 08:55:14 -1000
Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
> In response to the obvious next question, no one knows why Ebles carried
> what is apparently a Hebrew epithet. David H. Kelley has noted that this
> is one of a number of Hebrew-derived nicknames and epithets in use among
> the Carolingian nobility in this period; Kelley has developed a hypothesis
> about the dissemination of Jewish blood in some of these families which
> parallels, but is not identical to, the thesis of Arthur Zuckerman in his
> book _A Jewish Principality in Feudal France_ (New York, 1973).
> Unfortunately Prof. Kelley has not yet published any serious statement of
> this hypothesis, but there are certainly many unanswered questions here.
> Another possible explanation is that the name does not necessarily reflect
> Jewish blood or the strict applicability of the term under Jewish law, but
> exemplifies a fashion for Hebrew names and epithets among the Frankish
> nobility which was also current in the court of Charlemagne. It may just
> have been deemed (by someone with a smidgeon of culture) an exotic and
> therefore genteel way to mention the count's irregular birth.
As to the question of his illegitimacy, have you seen any evidence---or
even intelligent, focused speculation ------perhaps based on fragmentary
reports----as to "which way" he was a bastard.
To be quite direct and specific, was he or was he not the biological son
of Ramnulf II Comte de Poitou?
D. Spencer Hines---"Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini Tuo da
gloriam, propter misericordiam Tuam et veritatem Tuam." Henry V,
[1387-1422] King of England---Ordered it to be sung by his prelates and
chaplains---after the Battle of Agincourt, 25 Oct 1415,---while every
able-bodied man in his victorious army knelt, on the ground. [Psalm CXV,
|Re: Ebles Mamzer and his name by "D. Spencer Hines" <>|