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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-09 > 0875249120


From: Stewart Baldwin< >
Subject: Re: Llywelyn ap Iorwerth AT corrections.
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:45:20 GMT


Luke Stevens <> wrote:

>> 36. Edwin. [Note: PP.36 gives several contradictory
>> accounts of Edwin's parentage, all from late manuscripts, so
>> his parentage should be regarded as unknown.
>
>(I'd just like to point out that *all* of the 77 pedigrees in PP are
>from sources of the same period or later (except ABT & HL), and that in
>most cases Bartrum has noted every variation found in the earlier of
>these MSS, even when they are clearly mistakes. PP.36(1) is the version
>Bartrum accepts, and the other three seem to be misidentifications found
>in only one or two MSS each. Not that this proves anything; the statment
>just doesn't seem to convey this perspective.)

Actually, I think my statement accurately reflects the considerable
disagreement among the manuscripts. If you look at the footnotes in
Bartrum's edition of PP.36(1), where he gives the line Edwin ap Gronwy
ap Einion ap Ywain ap Howel dda, you will see that, in fact, only
three of the eleven manuscript witnesses which Bartrum cites for
PP.36(1) actually give that genealogy. The other eight all omit
Einion, and of these, one adds a "Rodri" between Ywain/Owain and Howel
dda, and two replace Ywain by Rodri. Thus, there are actually four
different genealogies given in the ones which Bartrum lumps together
as PP.36(1), and therefore seven different versions in all, counting
the other three versions for which Bartrum assigned separate numbers.
If you include the four manuscript witnesses (total) for PP.36(2,3,4),
you can see that only three of the seventeen manuscript witnesses for
Edwin's genealogy give the version accepted by Bartrum.

>>70. Dunlaing mac Tuathail, k. Laigin d. 958 [AU] [GaC]
> ^^^^^^
>Odd, he is usually said to have died in 1014, and his father in 958.

Oops. You are right. I accidently assigned him the death date of his
father. Dunlaing mac Tuathail became king of Leinster (Laigin) after
king Mael Morda fell at the Battle of Clontarf on 23 Apr 1014, and
died later in the same year.

>> 17920. Murchad mac Brain Muit, k. Laigin, d. 727 [AU]
>> [CGH.117d12,39,140b14,LL316a63,337f27, WUD] (also #35072)
>>
>> 17921. Conchenn ingen Cellaig Cualain, d. 943 [AU]
>> [CGH.LL316a47, WUD]
> ^^^^^^
> typo?

Take your pick:
a. No, she was just REALLY old :-)
b. Yes, should be 743.

Stewart Baldwin

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