GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1998-02 > 0887949393
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Weis Question
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:36:33 -0500
Alan B. Wilson wrote:
> In article <>, "Todd A. Farmerie"
> <> wrote:
> > So Richard, fl.1053 married the daughter of Richard d.996? Possible,
> > but unlikely. It looks like AR7 has made at least one error here. It
> > was Gulbert/Gilbert who married Papia, the daughter of Duke Richard.
> > Next we ask, which Duke Richard? ES says she was illegitimate daughter
> > of Richard I, but more traditionally, she has been shown as daughter of
> > Richard II. In a recent work by Thierry Stasser, he gives a complete
> > accounting of the children of Richard II, and includes Papia, wife of
> > Gilbert as a daughter of Richard by his second wife, Papia.
> ES ii, 79 shows Papia as daughter of Richard II and his third wife,
> Poppa. Richard II had married secondly, and divorced, Astrid of Denmark.
> Interestingly Turton, p. 178, also shows Papia of Normandy, wife of
> Gilbert de St. Valerie, as daughter of Richard II. It is Eleanor Searle
> (perhaps among others) who in "Predatory kinship and the creation of
> Norman power, 840-1066", Table 2, p. 255, has Gulbert of St. Valery
> married to an unnamed illegitimate daughter of Richard I.
Yes, thanks for the correction. It must have been Searle that I was
The Stasser reference is:
Stasser, Thierry. '"Mathilde, fille du Comte Richard": essai
d'identification.' Annales de Normandie, 40:49-64 (1990).
(Note that he also follows Vajay in including among Richard's children
the two wives of Tancred de Hauteville, whom others had variably
assigned as daughters of Richard I or one of his other sons.