GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1998-09 > 0905111103
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Subject: Re: Trente-Deux Quartiers Ahnenreihe
Date: 6 Sep 1998 19:45:03 GMT
Dear Cliff & Aline Bergemann, et alii,
Thank you kindly.
Your question is a very good one.
Schwennicke's ES [*Europaeische Stammtafeln/ Neue Folge* (reportedly at Band
III, Teilband 4, Tafel 810. I do not have it in front of me. Perhaps
others will confirm or deny.)] has her as "Aenor."
There are reportedly no indications of her parents, surname or any origin in
ES/NF at that cite. Again, if someone has confirmatory or contradictory
data, please speak up.
I realize that the Aurejac site has what represents #53 in my *Trente-Deux
Quartiers Ahnenreihe* on Alienor d'Aquitaine, as Agnes de Blois (Agnes ou
Aenor ou Aldearde de Blois) and the daughter of Eudes Ier de Blois [c.
945-996] and Berthe de Bourgogne [c. 965-1010].
I realize that some folks might say something like, "Well, she was obviously
French so why not take the French source over the German one, besides it's
'more complete' and gives the parents and everything." Idiot Check: I am
not quoting the Bergemanns, when I say that.
That is not the tack I choose to take in situations of this sort. I prefer
to err on the side of Prudence. I do not know the source of M. Aurejac's
identification of Agnes de Blois as the wife of Geoffroi II, [c. 990-1048]
vicomte de Thouars. It would be delightful if he is correct and we would
indeed have a richer set of data on the lady and her parents.
Hopefully, M. Aurejac will tell us the source of the data and we can judge
it for ourselves.
Perhaps Christian Settipani will have something further to say. I note that
in his brief review of my *Trente-Deux Quartiers Ahnenreihe* on Alienor
d'Aquitaine, over which we are still dialoguing, he did *not* recommend my
changing 'Ainora' to 'Agnes de Blois.'
My "impression", is that M. Settipani thinks [as of 4 Sep 1998] that
'Ainora/Aenor' died after 1060 and doubts that the alleged birth date of
circa 1002 can be validated. But, I don't speak for him --- he should do
that for himself and I trust he will. M. Aurejac says categorically that
'Agnes de Blois' was born in 996 --- and he may *well* be correct.
As to whether 'Ainora/Aenor' and 'Agnes de Blois' can be equated to each
other, I certainly do not have enough data in hand to make that equation.
Again, perhaps someone else can do it. If they can, please bring it on.
So, in summary, until I see some better vetting, validating and proving for
the identification of 'Agnes de Blois' as the wife of Geoffroi II, vicomte
de Thouars --- I am going with the ES Schwennicke 'Aenor.'
As always, of course, that is a tentative identification, to be reviewed
critically in the light of further data that may become available --- and
should never be construed as locked in concrete.
Finally, and in conclusion, your question was a very fine one and I'm glad
you asked it. I hope I've been of some help. Thank you.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas
Fortem Posce Animum
D. Spencer Hines --- William Jefferson Blythe III [Bill Clinton] President
of the United States --- Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia, Legem
Destruit Moralem. "Clinton's an unusually good liar. Unusually good."
Senator Bob Kerrey [Democrat, Nebraska]
Cliff & Aline Bergemann wrote in message
>Hi D. Spencer Hines,
>I really enjoyed your*Trente-Deux Quartiers Ahnenreihe* for Eleanor of
>But I found a problem when I got to Geoffroy II de Thouars, you have him
>married to Ainora! I have him married to Agnes de Blois!
>I checked other sources on the internet and they show what I have and I am
>sending you one of the best resources (I think) on the internet.
>Keep up the great work you are doing, I really appriciate the effort you
>putting into it.
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