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From: G . EDWARD ALLEN< >
Subject: Re: Mistress of Henry II 'Curtmantle' [Correction]
Date: 1 Oct 1998 12:23:44 -0700


D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>
> Vide infra.
>
> Make that "Countess Ida" --- which is, of course, a misquote by Todd A.
> Farmerie.
>
> The reported original was allegedly in Latin. Real scholars don't perform
> sleights of hand of that sort. They quote and *then* translate.

Spencer and all, please refer back to the Bradenstoke Cartulary thread
which is an English translation.

Kay Allen AG
>
> D. Spencer Hines
>
> Lux et Veritas
> --
>
> D. Spencer Hines --- "I said in 1992 he's a bright young guy in business, I
> might put him somewhere and train him to be a middle manager. Right now I
> wouldn't have him third shift in a hamburger stand responsible for cleaning
> out the sink after everybody had gone home." --- H. Ross Perot, Texas
> billionaire, who spent $65 million of his own money in 1992 defeating
> President George Herbert Walker Bush and opening the door to President
> William Jefferson Clinton. [9/26/98]
>
> D. Spencer Hines wrote in message <6v0hf8$>...
> >Vide infra.
> >
> >Let Todd carry his own water on this one. He's a big boy, capable of
> >carrying a bucket on each shoulder. Hines was responding to his discrete
> >points, not some ancient dispute.
> >
> >Allen's arguments are off the point. Hines's discussion of the Bradenstoke
> >Cartulary and associated matters having to do with the alleged "Countess
> >Lucy" are a matter of public record at Deja News. Allen should re-read
> >those posts before she tells Hines, and SGM, what he said. Quite obviously
> >Allen has a very poor memory of what Hines did, in fact, say. If she
> >desires to quote from those records let her not cut and paste, but show
> >Hines's complete arguments --- unabridged.
> >
> >Further, her last point is total, unadulterated gibberish. Read it again
> >and weep or laugh, gentle readers.
> >
> >>As I remember you had no argument as to why we should not accept the
> >>Bradenstoke Cartulary, except that none of us had seen the original.
> >>Well, you haven't either so your reluctance to accept it is less
> >>well-founded than our acceptance of it.
> >
> >Kay Allen 1 Oct 1998
> >
> >That sounds like something an elementary school kid might say as a
> >playground taunt, when frustrated and unable to come up with anything
> >better --- certainly not a reasoned, adult, scholarly statement of fact.
> >
> >No, Hines will deal with the Organ Grinder --- Todd A. Farmerie --- but not
> >with his Pet Monkey --- complete with little red pillbox hat, neatly laced
> >under her cute, furry chin.
> >
> >It would be best if Douglas Richardson were to get off his ruddy fundament
> >and publish his article on "Countess Ida." [corrected] He is still working
> with David
> >Faris, I suppose.
> >
> >Even Allen, herself, was taking that position, more than once, just a few
> >short months ago. [She did not mention the ruddy fundament.] She seems to
> >have conveniently forgotten that critical fact.
> >
> >We need documentation and reasoned interpretation, not speculation. pcr
> may
> >have some more to add. His previous speculations concerning the identity
> of
> >the alleged "Countess Ida" [corrected] have been professional and helpful.
> >
> >Best Wishes To All,
> >
> >D. Spencer Hines
> >
> >Lux et Veritas
> >Fortem Posce Animum
> >--
> >
> >D. Spencer Hines --- "I said in 1992 he's a bright young guy in business, I
> >might put him somewhere and train him to be a middle manager. Right now I
> >wouldn't have him third shift in a hamburger stand responsible for cleaning
> >out the sink after everybody had gone home." --- H. Ross Perot, Texas
> >billionaire, who spent $65 million of his own money in 1992 defeating
> >President George Herbert Walker Bush and opening the door to President
> >William Jefferson Clinton. [9/26/98]
> >
> >G . EDWARD ALLEN wrote in message <>...
> >
> >>D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That is far from definitive and unimpeachable proof.
> >>>
> >>> So, 'nuff has not been said.
> >>>
> >>> Douglas Richardson should publish, or is this writer implying that he
> >has?
> >>>
> >>> D. Spencer Hines
> >>>
> >>> Exitus Acta Probat
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> D. Spencer Hines --- "I said in 1992 he's a bright young guy in
> business,
> >I
> >>> might put him somewhere and train him to be a middle manager. Right now
> I
> >>> wouldn't have him third shift in a hamburger stand responsible for
> >cleaning
> >>> out the sink after everybody had gone home." --- H. Ross Perot, Texas
> >>> billionaire, who spent $65 million of his own money in 1992 defeating
> >>> President George Herbert Walker Bush and opening the door to President
> >>> William Jefferson Clinton. [9/26/98]
> >>>
> >>> Todd A. Farmerie wrote in message <>...
> >>> >ED MANN wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Gail Hopkins wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Who is wife of Henry II curtmantle King of England is Sir William
> >>> >> > Longspee his son. trying to sort out a mistake in file. thanks gail
> >>> >>
> >>> >> It's unknown - said to be Ikenai, "a common prostitute, but probably
> >the
> >>> >> daughter of a knight." Wier ewho lists this calls it doubtful. See
> >>> >> BRF:63.
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >Ikenai was the mother of another of Henry's bastards, Archbishop
> >>> >Geoffrey. William Longespee, in his own words, calls his mother
> >>> >'Countess Ida'. 'Nuff said.
> >>> >
> >>> >taf
> >>
> >>Spencer,
> >>
> >>Whether Douglas Richardson has published or not is immaterial. May I
> >>refer you back to the Bradenstoke Cartulary argument which consumed
> >>much bandwidth at least twice in the past. (See Countess Ida and
> >>Bradenstoke Cartulary threads)
> >>
> >>As I remember you had no argument as to why we should not accept the
> >>Bradenstoke Cartulary, except that none of us had seen the original.
> >>Well, you haven't either so your reluctance to accept it is less
> >>well-founded than our acceptance of it.
> >>
> >>You write:
> >>
> >>"Proofs in Genealogy are must needs becoming more demanding. A more
> >>sophisticated audience will not accept the old balderdash that was
> >>palmed off as Gospel Truth by charlatan genealogists of the past---
> >>even the relatively recent past."
> >>
> >>Are you equating the Bradenstoke Cartulary as we have previously
> >>discussed it with the likes of Horatio Gates Somersby and other
> >>charlatans? If so, why do you equate it so?
> >>
> >>Kay Allen AG
> >
> >

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