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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1998-12 > 0913017243


From: Don Stone< >
Subject: Re: Egbert of Wessex and the Saxon (Carolingian) Egbert
Date: 6 Dec 1998 23:54:03 -0800


Chris Bennett wrote (on 5 Dec. 1998):
>
> No additional information, but some reactions, offered in the spirit of
> stimulating lines of inquiry:
>
> 1) The 14th year of a "ducatus" being 826, the 1st year is 813. Is there
> any reason to suppose that the 813 date for Egbert's Cornish expedition
> should NOT be corrected to 815?

Not that I know of. (I see why you ask, though.)

> Alternatively, how does 813 fit into the
> chronology of the known career of Egbert the Saxon? How does 815?

Settipani's response says that the Saxon Egbert is last mentioned in
811.

> 2) Is it really still true that there is no charter evidence for Egbert
> before 824? THe Saxon charters for Egbert available online at
> http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/users/sdk13/chartwww/regestafiles/Wessex_Ecgberht.html
> gives one (S270a) dated 801, the next is 823 -- is S270a genuine? or
> misdated?

Heather Edwards (1988, p. 56) says that the donor in this charter S270a
is Edbirtus, but that since there was no king Eadberht in Wessex, the
donor has been identified with queen Eadburh, wife of king Beorhtric
(786-802), or alternatively with king Ecgberht (802-839). She thinks
queen Eadburh is more likely, since the date of the charter is during
the reign of Beorhtric and since five of the seven witnesses of this
charter also attest a charter of Beorhtric in the same year and queen
Eadburh is also among the witnesses of the latter text (S268).

For the next charter, S271, the year should probably be 828 rather than
823 (Edwards, 1988, p. 284). Edwards says (p. 285), "It seems clear
that the compiler of this document made use of authentic ninth-century
records, and elements from these survive in the document he produced,
but this document itself appears to be a fabrication."

> 7) In any case, if Raedburga is truly 'sororia' of a king of the Franks
> (niece, according to David Kelley), the king involved could well be Louis
> the Pious not CHarlemagne -- does that help locate her?

Kelley says sororia could easily also be great-niece, and there are
various proposals that would make St. Ida a niece or great-niece of King
Pepin. (This is no help, of course, unless Raedburga = Ida.) Christian
Settipani said (on 5 Dec. 1998):

> Hadwig of Herford, granddaughter of Ecbert is attested as the cousin of
> Charles le Chauve, grandson of Charlemagne, at degree 3:4. That is to
> say : 1) that a grand-parent of Hadwig is the brother or sister of
> great-grandparent of Charles II, and 2) that there is no more close
> relationship between them.

The great-grandparent of Charles II le Chauve could be King Pepin, but
there appear to be too few generations between Hadwig of Herford and
Pepin's brother or sister.

-- Don Stone

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