Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1998-12 > 0914038256

From: Josephine Lindsay Bass< >
Subject: Re: Brienne
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:30:56 -0800

Yes i have susanne, but not connected to my Jacques Briand (Bryant). i
have been wondering if she was and how. I have heard from some of your
cousins-one in particular who is searching and asked me about a connection
to Susanne BRIAN.

i have her parents as Jacques Brian b 1611 and Susan Gerard of Sedan, France.

My Jacques Briand (Bryant) Settled in 1st James City County, then
Goochland now Powhatan County. No authentic record available records
burned. His son, my gf, Jacques was Secretary Of King William Parish, VA
In 1744, m. Elizabeth LEFEVRE, dau of Isaac Lefevre and PARENTEAU (PARANTOS)

i have all the same info on Susanne Brian, except her death date which I
had blank - The Soblet family has been well researched: but i have not
seen "L'Aine" what does this mean?

®691 Abraham Soblet (Sublett) b Sedan, France, 1648, son of Jean Soblet and
Judith (Lombart); Fled France by 1681 for Manheim, by 1693 at Wesel; later
to London; in 1700 to Manakin, Virginia; married Susanne BRIAN not Dupuy.

See C. Allen, "The (Soblet) (Subley) Sublett Family of Manakintown, King
William Parish, VA" at Detroit Society for Genealogical Research Magazine,
27:3 + et seq. (numerous installments over a three year period.)

®692 Soblet/Sublette, Abraham. B. 4 Dec 1648, son of Jean and Judith
(Lombard) Soblet; bap 6 Dec 1648, Sedan, France; md. 31 Mar 1679 (sic of
1674?) Sedan, Susanne Briant; fled to Germany; to Holland; to England;
arrived 12 Aug 1700 Jamestown, VA on Mary and Ann, with sons Abraham and
Jacques; wife arrived 20 Sep 1700 Jamestown, on Peter and Anthony, with
Anne, Pierre, Louis, and Robert.

Anne, bap Sedan 27 Oct 1675 perhaps md. as 2nd wife Pierre Chastain;
Abraham, b. bef. 1680 Sedan, France, d. 1722 s.p. Powhattan Co. VA;
Jacques, b. Sedan, France d. 1741/2 Goochland Co. VA;
Pierre Louis b ca. 1686 Germany, d. 24 Nov 1754 Cumberland co. VA m/1 ?;
m/2 Marte Martain;
Robert, bap May 1698 Church of La Patente, Soho, London, England.

Sublett, 5-6; Douglas, 44-45, 72, 300, 384, Nunis, 48-49, 53, 61; Sublette,
5-14, 18-20; Va. Mag. 11"296-297, 435, 12:20-23, 26-27; Cameron Allen, "The
(Soblet, Subley) Sublett Family of Manakintown, King William Parish,
Detroit Mag., vol. 27 and later (1963-1966); Donald J. Soblette, in Detroit
Mag., vols. 29, 38, 41;
Will Peter Louis Soblet 5 Nov 1754.

so far the only connection i have to the Soblet family is later thru my

i will answer your quesiton in my next post.


At 09:13 PM 12/18/98 GMT, you wrote:
>The Huguenot Briant/Brian [N.B. There was no standard spelling in
>English at that date.] Family is also totally different from those
>noted infra.
>Susanne Briant/Brian was born in Sedan, Province de Champagne,
>Ardennes, France in 1652 and died before 1714 in Manakintown, the
>Huguenot community, in Henrico County, Virginia. She was married to
>Abraham Soblet "L'Aine" on 31 Mar 1674 in Ardennes, France.
>They are reportedly my seventh Great-Grandparents.
>The statement:
>"A part of his family moved into England at an early date" is a
>standard prevarication, used by charlatan and fraudulent
>genealogists --- casually designed to link two families, who have no
>proven blood relationship.
>This "The Name's The Same" Game is Puerile and Fraudulent. Caveat
>Lector. Tell us the source for this genealogical fraud.
>D. Spencer Hines
>Lux et Veritas
>D. Spencer Hines --- "The final happiness of man consists in the
>contemplation of truth....This is sought for its own sake, and is
>directed to no other end beyond itself." Saint Thomas Aquinas,
>[1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles" [c.1258-1264]
>Josephine Lindsay Bass wrote in message
>>Thank you, I appreciate the help from members of this list, and
>sources given.
>>The problem appears to be the statement :
>> "A part of his family moved into England at an early date".
>>and BRIAN was listed on the Ship's list to America from England with
>>There is a BRYANT's STATION or BRYAN's Station in KY
>>1st pioneer settlement in KY which has several family hypothesis re:
>>original founder so the two have been mixedup.
>>Below was sent to me by a member of the list: Very much appreciated.
>>1 Englebert I, Seigneur de BrienneI - 990
>> 2 Englebert II, Seigneur de Brienne - 1055
>> 3 Gautier I - 1080
>> +Eustachie de Bar-Sur-Seine
>> 4 Erard II, Count de BrienneI - 1189
>> +Agnes de Montebelliar
>> 5 Gautier 'de Brienne'
>> +daughter of Tancrede Alberic, King of Sicily
>> 5 Jean De Brienne aka John of Brienne 1150 - 1236/37
>> +Mary
>> 6 Alphonse 'de Brienne'
>> +Mary of Lusigan
>>There is no connection between the Bryans and the Briennes.
>(Alphonse was
>>son of Jean de Brienne by his wife Berengaria of Leon, daughter of
>>IX. Jean was not son of the daughter of the King of Sicily.)
>> 7 Guy De Brienne, Brien, Bryan, Brian
>> +Lady Jane de la Pele
>> 8 Guy De Brian - 1307
>> +Eve de Tracy
>> 9 Sir Guy De Bryan III
>> +Sybil De Sully
>> 10 Sir Guy De Bryan IV - 1347
>> +Ann Howley
>> 11 Lord Guy De Brienne - 1390
>> +Elizabeth de Montacute
>>the Lords Bryan ended in daughters about this time.
>>Also No.8 was the ancestor of Lord Bryan but not by his marriage to
>Eve de
>>Tracy. Eve's daughter, Maud de Bryan, was sole heir to her
>>Henry de Tracy (d.1274), in the barony of Barnstaple.[CP II:361-362;
>>Sanders EB 104-105].
>>No.8's son and heir another Guy de Bryan of Laugharne Pembrokeshire
>>(d.1349) probably married Alice (living 1243) dau. of William de
>>Their son was the famous Sir Guy de Bryan (b. about 1318 d.1390)
>>Bryan KG) who married possibly Joan Carreu d.1348/49). His daughters
>>granddaughters) were his eventual coheirs. [See the abve CP reference
>>CP V:463-464]. The earlier reference is in some possible conflict
>with the
>>later one. However, the general point is not in dispute, namely that
>>main Bryan line ended in two coheirs.
>>12 Sir William De Bryan - 1412/13
>> +Joan FitzAlan - 1404
>> 13 Sir Thomas Bryan - 1444
>> +Margaret Echyanham
>> 14 Sir Edmund Bryan
>> +Alice de Bures
>> 15 Sir Thomas Bryan - 1500
>> +Margaret Bowsey
>> 16 Sir Thomas Bryan (Lord Barnes)
>> +Margaret Bouchier
>> 17 Sir Francis Bryan I 1490 - 1549/50
>> +Lady Joan Fitzgerald (Countess of Ormond) Est 1507-1530 - Est
>> *2nd Wife of Jean De Brienne aka John of Brienne:
>> +Berengarie
>>At 01:24 PM 12/18/98 GMT, William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:
>>> (Josephine Lindsay Bass) wrote:
>>>>Has anyone heard of
>>>>*Englebert I, Seigneur de Brienne, a Frenchman, who died in 990. A
>part of
>>>>his family moved into England at an early date.
>>>You can find all of the above persons in the genealogy of the
>>>family published in *Europaeische Stammtafeln*, ed. Schwennicke,
>Band III,
>>>Teilband 4 [1989], Tafeln 681-686. You won't find any of the
>>>below, because they were Bryans or Brians, not Briennes. Different
>>>>*Guy de Bryan distinguished himself in both military and naval
>exploits in
>>>>the reigns of Edward the III and Richard II. In 1361, he was made
>>>>of the Kings fleet and elected fifty-seventh Knight of the Garter.
>>>>*Sir Francis Brian was govenor-general of Ireland, and in 1549 Lord
>>>Both of these are mentioned in the second edition of Cokayne's
>>>Peerage*, vol. II [1912], pp. 361-363.
>>>William Addams Reitwiesner
>>>"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."
>>216 Beach Park Lane
>>Cape Canaveral, FL 32920-5003
>>Home of The *HARRISON* Repository & *MY FAMILY*
>>My Family WWW:
>>LINDSAY & HARRISON Surnames & CSA-HISTORY Roots Mail List
>>Data Managed by beautiful daughter Becky Bass Bonner and me,
>>Lindsay Bass

216 Beach Park Lane
Cape Canaveral, FL 32920-5003

Home of The *HARRISON* Repository & *MY FAMILY*
My Family WWW:

Data Managed by beautiful daughter Becky Bass Bonner and me, Josephine
Lindsay Bass

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