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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-01 > 0915488466


From: Kay Robinson< >
Subject: Re: Surnames
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 22:21:06 GMT


On 3 Jan 1999 23:40:20 -0800 and using an environmentally safe writing
implement (Leo van de Pas) carefully wrote:

>For a personal reason I would like to ask perhaps
>a weird question. You have surnames, like Jones and Smith.

>With these it is easy to place them in an alphabet,
>now you have continental surnames, lets stick to Jones
>and Smith, but in Germany von Jones, in the Netherlands
>van Jones, in France is a family de La Rochefoucauld.

>In those countries where should those names mentioned
>be placed in an alphabet? Not necessarily for a telephone
>directory. I know my answer but I would like to hear what
>people's opinions are.

>Many thanks
>Leo van de Pas

Generally I follow the procedure of the biographical dictionaries in
these cases e.g. 'De Burgh' or 'D'Burgh' would be under 'D' but 'de
Burgh' is under 'B'. My logic (and maybe their's) being that prefixes
such as de, le, von etc. are a form of pointers to an origin but when
incoporated as a part of the name they then are capitalised. Another
example where the process can easily be traced over the years is
'fitz', already discussed.

In the case of 'Macs' I always put 'Mac' before 'Mc' and indeed accept
my computers alphabetical placing of these names so 'Madden' would
appear *before* 'McBride'. Maybe I am odd in this respect but so many
people I know are very particular on how their name is spelt.

Kay

--------------------------------------------
A good end cannot sanctify evil, nor must
we ever do evil that good may come of it.
Force may subdue, but Love gains, and he
that forgives first wins the laurel.

William Penn 1644-1718
-----------------------------------------
Kay Robinson <>
Give all you can, Take only what you need

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