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From: Richard Borthwick< >
Subject: Re: de Ros
Date: 5 Feb 1999 23:06:03 -0800


At 07:44 PM 5/02/99 -0800, you wrote:
>In a message dated 2/5/99 6:14:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> writes:
>
>> Marmaduke de Thweng, lord Thweng, d.shortly < 26 Feb 1322/23. He m. 1273
>> Isabel dau. of Sir William de Ros, of Ingmanthorpe, Yorks by Eustache dau.
>> and heir of Ralph fitz Hugh by Agnes dau. and heir Ralph de Greasley.
>> William de Ros (d.shortly < 18 May 1310. He was a younger (probably the
>> 3rd) son of Sir William Ros (d. about 1264) of Helmsley by Lucy his wife.
>> Marmaduke was the second surviving son of Marmaduke (d.1282/84) by Lucy
>> dau. of Piers (II) de Brus, of Skelton, Yorks, by Hawise (Helewise) sister
>> and coheir of William de Lancaster (d.1246), of Kendal, Westmorland. Lucy
>> de Brus was coheir of her brother Piers (III) (d.s.p.1272), of Skelton.
[CP
>> XI:117-118, 93-94 & 94 note (j), XII/1:740-741, XIV:612; Sanders *English
>> Baronies etc* 77]
>>
>> I hope this is of some help.
>
>Marmaduke Thweng's first son, also Marmaduke died at the Battle of Stirling
>Bridge.
>
>The younger Marmaduke would be Lucy Thweng's brother [the Thweng heiress].
>
>Lloyd King
>Dallas, Texas
>
I am a bit puzzled whether Lloyd is referring to the Marmadukes in my post
or is making a fresh point involving a new Marmaduke (the Stirling Bridge
one). Marmaduke (the son) had (as I suggested but did not name or give
details) an elder brother, Robert (d.v.p.1279). Robert married (maybe
twice) and had a daughter and heir, Lucy (b. about1273 d.1347), who
inherited her homonymous grandmother's portion of the Skelton barony. While
Lucy inherited her gran's quarter portion of Skelton she did not inherit
the Thweng lands as these passed to her uncle, Marmaduke (the son).
Marmaduke (the son) was the father of the Stirling Bridge Marmaduke
(d.v.p.& s.p.1297). The latter's three brothers in turn succeeded their
father but d.s.p. Their sisters were in their issue coheirs, namely
Catherine (a quo Daubeney & Botreaux), Margaret (a quo Pedwardine & Hotham)
and Lucy (a quo Lumley). I may have it wrong but I think the picture looks
like this.

Marmaduke oo Lucy de Brus
d.1282/84 |
________________________________|___
Robert Marmaduke oo Isabel de Ros
d.1279 d.1322/23 |
| |
| |
Lucy oo(1) William Latimer (div.) |
(2) Robert de Everingham |
(3) Bartholomew de Fanacourt |
|
___________________________________________|_________________
Marmaduke William Robert Thomas Catherine Margaret Lucy
dsp dsp dsp dsp
1279 1340 1344 1374

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