Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-02 > 0918706455

From: Reedpcgen< >
Subject: Matilda de Clere, wife of John de Lacy
Date: 11 Feb 1999 04:14:15 GMT

Just a little followup of some things I didn't post in my last message.

>From Dugdale's Mon. Angl. 6:315:
Iste Rogerus moriebatur in festo sancti Remigii, anno gratiae MCCXI. et cum
domina Matilda uxore sua sepultus est in choro monachorum de loco benedicto de

So it appears our Maud/Matilda was buried at Stanlow, Cheshire, which had been
founded by (if I remember correctly) the family of William fitzNigel.

And from 5:534 [Historia Laceiorum, from the account of the Abbey of Kirkstall]

Iste Rogerus de Lacy duxit in uxorem Matildam de Clare sororem thesaurarii
Eborum ecclesiae, de qua genuit Johanem, secundum constabularium, et comitem

Now please realize that this comes from an edition, though much expanded beyond
he original, that still contains numerous mistakes in transcription. I would
certainly trust Pailey Baildon over the editors of Mon. Angl. any day.

But note: this would be the origin of John de Lacy's wife being called Maud "de
Clare". It's appearance in CP, William Farrer's Honors and Knights' Fees, and
EYC would all trace to this obviously well known public source.

Taken with the problems of consanguinity, mentioned before, when her
granddaughter married the Earl of Gloucester, I still believe that the
rendering of "de Clere" is preferable, and that at least in any case, we should
believe that Maud was at least sister of the treasurer of hte church of York,
who would at that time also have been the Archdeacon of the East Riding.

I had also checked the Calendar of Papal Letters, v. 1, 1198-1304, but found
nothing relevant. Also negative were Calendar of Close Rolls, 1227-31,
Calendar of Chancery Warrants 1244-1326, Calendar of Liberate Rolls, 1226-1240,
Calendar of Charter Rolls, Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous 1219-1307,
Excerpta e rotulis finium 1216-1272, and Calendar of Patent Rolls 1225-32.

I did find one entry in the Calendat of Patent Rolls 1216-1225, under the date
of 1225 [p. 576]:
Et Matildi de Lascy pro eodem Jordano [Foliot] de bosco de Pippin.

I did not take the time to check through the six volumes of the Catalogue of
Ancient Deeds. If someone else wants to do that for Lascy, Lacy, Clere, and
Clare, please feel free to do so. I also did not search further in the Pipe

I am satisfied that there was no charter in which Maud used the surname "de
Clare" as her own name. Doug mentioned to me that he had not seen the original
transcription of such a charter, but thought he saw a secondary reference which
cited to one. As I said before, our memories are not (and mine isn't) always
without fault.

But wanting to be certain of this conclusion, I spent far more time than I had
available on this matter.


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