Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-03 > 0921456525

From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Early Counts of Castile
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:08:45 -0500

> On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:52:32 -0500, "Todd A. Farmerie"
> <> wrote:
> >Counts of Castile (all dates approximate):
> >
> <SNIP>
> >6. Fernando Diaz, Count 917-23. He was presumably son of Diego Porcelos.
> >
> BINGO. I also have five siblings for him (Rodrigo, Gonzalo, Morello,
> Diego, Gutina) by an unknown wife of Porcelos but no descendants from
> this generation except through a child by another wife of Porcelos,
> one Ansura Ansurez (no parents known), mother of a Sulla Ansura,
> mother according to one source of Gonzalo Fernandez, Count 912-915.
> OK, so that's wrong. But the same source shows also (as sister of
> Gonzalo), Theresa Elvira, m Flavio Lain of Vivar thence:
> Fernan Lainez Lain Fernandez {now following Menendez Pidal as cited by
> TAF} m Tigridia Diaz of Saldana
> and so on down to El Cid.
> What's wrong with this picture?

I don't know that any of this can be documented, and many of the names
look fishy. These dual names appear a lot in the 17th century
reconstructions, but rarely can such an individual be shown to have
exister. Both Sulla Ansura as daughter of a Diego, and Theresa Elviara
as sister of Gonzalo Fernandez are problematic (note also the attempt to
force a descent of the later Counts of Castile from the early ones).
Flavio Lain likewise looks bad.

> Is the mother of Fernando Diaz (& siblings?) known?

I don't think so. The Rodriguez paper on the Salinas of Castile may
speculate about which family she belonged to, but no name.

> Are the early generations supra from Porcelos down to El Cid
> supported?

No. Note that my Cid AT provides a different descent. The Cid line is
traced back to Lain Calvo, Judge of Castile, by a chronicle written
after his death. It is tracing him back 200 years, and that very fact
shouldn't inspire much confidence. Anything before that is mere
guesswork (including the version I presented in the Cid AT, based on the
imfamous Vajay charts. As to Porcelos, I know of NO descent from him.
The most complete modern analysis is found in the Rodriguez paper.


Rodriquez Marquina, Javier. Las Salinas de Castilla en el Siglo X, y la
Genealogia de las Familias Condales. in Homenaje a Fray Justo Perez de
Urbel, OSB., 143-51 (1976).

This thread: