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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-03 > 0922056409


From: "Diane Andreasen" <>
Subject: Re: 'Shakespeare In Love' and Charlemagne
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:46:49 -0500


And in spite of all that baggage, they are exceptional actors!

----------
> From: D. Spencer Hines <>
> To:
> Subject: Re: 'Shakespeare In Love' and Charlemagne
> Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 12:11 PM
>
> Vide infra.
>
> D. Spencer Hines
> --
>
> D. Spencer Hines --- "I like to think of him [William Shakespeare] as
> poacher, as village ne'er-do-well, denounced by the local
> grammar-school master." J. K. Jerome, "Second Thoughts of Idle
> Fellow" p. 266 [1898]
>
> John Carmi Parsons <> wrote in message
> news:...
> >
> > On 21 Mar 1999, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > The fine young British actor, Joseph Fiennes, [born 1970] who
> plays
> > > Will Shakespeare [1564-1616] is reportedly a 38th great-grandson
> of
> > > Charlemagne [742-814].
> > > Joseph has a twin, Jacob, who is a prize-winning gamekeeper for
> Sir
> > > Nicholas Bacon in Raveningham, Norfolk. Both the twins are
> younger
> > > brothers of another fine British actor, Ralph Fiennes.
> >
> > I would have to check the exact number of generations in the
> Charlemagne
> > descent, but Joseph, Jacob and Ralph are definitely great-grandsons
> of the #
> > Baron Saye and Sele, as may readily be ascertained from either
> Debrett's or
> > Burke's.
>
> They are actually 3rd great-grandsons of the 16th Baron Saye and Sele,
> Frederick Benjamin Twistleton [1799-1887]. He was reportedly the
> sixth, but first surviving, son. In 1849 he added the names
> Wykeham-Fiennes. Cousin and heir of William Thomas, 15th Lord Saye
> and Sele. Rector of Broadwell and Adlestrop, County Gloucester
> 1825-1852.
>
> > Did it myself right after I saw *Elizabeth*, in which Joseph
> > Fiennes also appears, but which is vastly inferior to *Shakespear in
> Love*.
> > The family name is correctly Twistleton-Wykeham-Fiennes, but for
> convenience's
> > sake most members today go by Fiennes alone (pronounced "Fynes").
>
> Actually, the 21st Lord Saye and Sele, Nathaniel Thomas Allen Fiennes,
> dropped the Twistleton-Wykeham in 1965. He was born in 1920. He
> allegedly has three sons and a daughter. He lives/lived at Broughton
> Castle, and is an Oxonian. The castle was one of the settings in the
> film 'Shakespeare In Love'.
>
> William Fiennes [1582-1662] 'Old Subtlety' 1st Viscount Saye and Sele
> was the founder of Saybrook Colony in Connecticut, on the Connecticut
> River, in 1632. He acquired the land from the Earl of Warwick.
> William Fiennes was Speaker of the Upper House under Cromwell, whom he
> once advocated to become King. 'Old Subtlety' is the 11th
> Great-Grandfather of Ralph and Joseph.
>
> An earlier Fiennes, James, the 1st Baron Saye and Sele, 18th
> Great-Grandfather of the brothers,was executed by the mob in Jack
> Cade's Rebellion at Cheapside, London in 1450.
>
> >
> > In any case, the Fiennes' Boulonnais ancestors certainly had a
> Carolingian
> > descent by the thirteenth century through their ancestor Faramus,
> lord of
> > Tingry, an OOW son of an earlier count of Boulogne.
> >
> > John Parsons
> >
>
> The descent from Edward III is another most interesting exercise.
>
> D. Spencer Hines
>
> Lux et Veritas
> Fortem Posce Animum ['Ask For A Brave Spirit' --- The Fiennes Family
> Motto]
>
>

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