GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-03 > 0922130628
From: John Carmi Parsons <>
Subject: Re: MANDEVILLE
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:23:48 -0500 (EST)
At least part of this statement is supported by the genealogies of the 14
competitors for the Scots crown in 1291, as set forth in tabular form in
William Croft Dickinson, *Scotland from the earliest times to 1603* (London-
Edinburgh: Thomas Nelson, 1961), p. 151. I believe this table is taken
directly from *The Scots Peerage* or some other publication of that era
that I have seen.
The table shows five OOW children of William the Lion, among them an Aufrica
(marriage not shown) who was mother of a William (no surname given), who was
father of a second Aufrica (no marriage shown), mother of an Agatha (no
marriage), mother of Roger Mandeville. As Roger Mandeville's claim was
reckoned through Aufrica I's son William, the descendants of any daughters of
Aufrica I would have come second to those of the son.
Aufrica I might well, then, have been the mother of Beatrice de Saye, but I'd
like to see some more contemporary evidence for that filiation as well as for
any connection between this Say(e) line and the better-known group.
On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Brant Gibbard wrote:
> On 20 Mar 1999 22:09:07 GMT, "Robert O'Connor" <>
> >What is your reference for the wife of William de Saye being a daughter of
> >William I King of Scotland?
> According to Caroline Bingham's biography of Robert the Bruce, p. 47,
> and genealogical table, Roger de Mandeville had put forth a claim as a
> Competitor for the Scottish throne by 3 Aug 1291, based on being a
> great-great grandson of Aufrica (an illegitimate daughter of William I
> The Lion) and William de Saye.
> Brant Gibbard
> Toronto, Ont.
|Re: MANDEVILLE by John Carmi Parsons <>|