GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-03 > 0922234311


From: Dcrdcr4< >
Subject: Re: De St. Liz and de Quincy
Date: 24 Mar 1999 00:11:51 GMT


Hi Suzanne:

I see what you are saying. The relationship you set forth would make Alan and
Margaret related in the 4th and 5th degrees. If Alan's ancestress, Elizabeth,
was truly the bastard daughter of King Henry I (and I believe she was), that
kinship would have existed between them. Technically, this would have
required a dispensation. However, since there is a bastardy in both Alan and
Margaret's lines of descent (both Alan and Margaret being descended from an
illegitimate child of King Henry I), I doubt this would be the relationship
which caused the couple their trouble. First, I was told some years ago by
Lee Sheppard that dispensations were not required in cases of people being
related through bastard lines. In this case, you have a bastardy in both the
groom and the bride's ancestry. To be honest, I have never checked to see if
Lee was correct but I assume he was. He was quite definite about the matter.
Second, in a more practical matter, Alan was criticized by one chronicler for
having married Margaret to whom he was too closely related. I doubt that a
kinship of the 4th and 5th degrees would have raised more than an eyebrow or
two. The more apparent and glaring kinship would be through the Warenne
family which would make them related in the 4th and 3rd degrees as I recall.
That's FAR within the prohbited degrees of consanguinity and that would
definitely have gotten Alan in HOT water. It's also apparent that neither
Alan or Margaret could plead ingorance of the kinship involved as they would
have been too closely related for them not to have known of the relationship
involved.

I hope this helps. Best always, Douglas Richardson

This thread: