GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-05 > 0926262178
From: Richard Borthwick <>
Subject: Re: Hastings Pedigree
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 23:02:58 +0800
At 02:55 AM 9/05/99 +0100, you wrote:
>I fear my question of a few minutes ago re Robert de Hastings wasn't well
>designed to gain a very helpful answer. Of course the two Roberts may well
>be the same, and he simply had two wives (Maud de Flamville and Isabel
>grdda. of Walter Fitz Other). What I'm really asking is for help in
>sequencing Robert among the Hastings and his wife among the Flamvilles (if
>that is right). Cheers for your patience!
The connection between the two Flamville families is not known, but little
doubt that they are the same family group. Roger (II) de F. (d.1169) and
his wife Juetta de Arches (d.about 1206) had a daughter Maud (d.after 1219)
who married Robert de Hastings (d.about 1190). If Robert has a wife Isabel
(and there is some doubt about this) she would have been his first wife. I
think Moriarty is probably right in thinking Maud to be the mother of Alice.
Robert was son of William (d.1162/66) and Hawise ? de Guerres (d.after
1219). William was the son of Robert fitz Walter (d.about 1128). Debate has
centred on whether his father Walter was Walter fitz Other (Windsor) or
Walter the Deacon (otherwise known as Walter fitz Tedric). Moriarty opts
for the first alternative and then in a later extended note of correction
for the latter. Keats-Rohan *Domesday People* I:454 says that Walter the
Deacon was brother (not son) and heir of Tedric (Theoderic) in the lands in
Essex which became known as the barony of Little Easton and that Robert
fitz Walter (aka de Windsor) was Walter's son. Moriarty and Keats Rohan
both come to roughly the same conclusion based on the work of L Landon "The
Barony of Little Easton and the Family of Hastings" in *Trans. Essex Arch.
Soc.* vol xix. In addition K-R cites B Dodwell "Charters relating to the
Honour of Bacton" in Stenton Miscellany (but precisely what this Stenton
work is titled I don't know - a quick look at the bibliography hasn't
It is likely that Robert fitz Walter married a dau. of Walter fitz Other
according to Moriarty and both he and K-R note that Robert fitz Walter's
sister, Edith married (1) Ralph steward of Bury St Edmunds and (2) Maurice
Why the names 'Windsor' and 'Hastings' were used by members of Robert's
family is something of a mystery. The fitz Other family linked Robert's
family and that of Hastings and the adoption of such surnames was a very
fluid matter at this stage of surname development.
Kay gave the full details of the Moriarty papers in the course of the
Hastings discussion. on Maud de Flamville and her ascendants see Farrer
*Early Yorkshire Charters* I:420 and II:89-95.