GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-12 > 0944084249


From: Ulf H Larsson <>
Subject: Re: Henry I's Daughter Elizabeth
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:37:29 +0100


Note 26 on page 331 in Barrows "Robert Bruce..." 1988 edition
"26. Roger Howden calls Uhtred son of Fergus of Galloway a
cousin of King Henry II(Gesta Henrici Secundi Benedicti Abbatis, ed
Stubbs, Roll Ser., i, 80), a relationship which is best explained on the
supposition that Fergus married a bastard daughter of Henry I. The
suggestion in Scots Peerage, s.v. 'Galloway', that Gilbert, Uhtred's
brother, had a different mother is contradicted by Cal. Docs. Scot.,
i, no. 480 where King John calls Duncan his cousin."

That there are 28 "footnotes" on page 331 is because notes are
collected at the end in the 1988 edition.
Note 26 is in the text in chapter 2 "Bruce of Annandale" on page
26. " It has been said that the Bruces were 'not bread in the Gaelic
tradition', (31) but......"

Ulf H Larsson

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote:

> Vide infra.
>
> 1. The Burden of Proof is not on me to Refute anything. The Burden of
> Proof is on those who claim that Henry I had an illegitimate daughter
> named Elizabeth, who married Fergus of Galloway.
>
> 2. Show Us The Proof. I'm convinced by proof, not wishful hopes and
> expectations. Alison Weir is an absurd genealogical source. I'm not
> required to Refute Alison Weir either. She must prove her case. Does
> she cite a source for her supposition?
>
> 3. Barrow, op. cit. p. 331 in the 1965 edition does not have a note 26.
> The 1988 edition may have a note 26. Does anyone have that edition?
> Twenty-six [26] footnotes on a single page is rather unusual, unless
> they have been renumbered from the beginning of the chapter.
>
> 4. Does anyone have access to Barrow, op. cit., 1988?
>
> 5. Please note the "said to be..." in CP. Not very solid.
> --
>
> D. Spencer Hines
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> --
>
> Hamlet: "Do you see yonder cloud that's almost in shape of a camel?
> Polonius: "By the mass, and 'tis like a camel indeed." --- Hamlet:
> "Methinks it is like a weasel." --- Polonius: "It is backed like a
> weasel." --- Hamlet: "Or like a whale?" --- Polonius: "Very like a
> whale." --- William Shakespeare (1564-1616), _The Tragedy of Hamlet,
> Prince of Denmark_, III, ii, 384-390 [N.B. Portrait of a sycophantic
> American academic, circa 1999.]
>
> "arnold weirmeir" <> wrote in message
> news:%gb14.750$...
> |
> | RBodine996 <> wrote in message
> | news:...
> | > I haven't followed all of the discussion on this, but let me throw
> this
> | out in
> | > the event it has not been surfaced.
> | >
> | > The Complete Peerage, vol. 14, p. 582 adds to Appendix D, vol. 11,
> the
> | > following:
> | >
> | > "...add "Another daughter, Elizabeth, said to be Henry's youngest
> | illegitimate
> | > child, is mentioned in Scots Peerage (vol. iv, p. 136), and there
> said to
> | have
> | > married Fergus, Lord of Galloway. See also C. Warren Hollister,
> Monarchy,
> | > Magnates and Institutions, 1986, p. 251, n. 17. G.W.S. Barrow,
> Robert
> | Bruce,
> | > 1988, p. 331, n. 26, corrects doubts as to the marriage in the Scots
> | Peerage.
> | > Ex inform. Eric Thompson."
> | >
> | > I might add that the mother of Uhtred, Lord of Galloway 1160-74, is
> noted
> | as
> | > "illeg. dau. of Henry I K. England" in Archibald A. M. Duncan's
> | "Scotland-The
> | > Making of the Kingdom" p. 632.
> | >
> | > Ronny Bodine
> | To DSH
> | Can you refute this as you seem to have refuted Alison Weir in
> "Britain's
> | Royal Families".
> | I did not quote Weir as an Authoritative source but only as an
> indicator
> | that the situation may be true. Please don't through the baby out with
> the
> | bathwater.
> | Arnold Weirmeir

This thread: