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From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Re: Anne Plantagenet Line Mistake?
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:13:28 +0800


Dear Brandi Murry,

Where did you find Elizabeth Manners' birth of 'about 1506'?

Burke's Peerage 1938 page 2149 makes her a daughter of Thomas Manners,
1st Earl of Rutland, and Eleanor Paston, as does the "The Anne of Exeter
Volume".
Here we have two sources confirming your line.

Thomas Manners and Eleanor Paston married 'before 1523' and had ten
children,
ranging from Henry born 1526 to Oliver born in 1543. This should show that
Elizabeth cannot be born in or about 1506. Her father married his first wife
in 1513,
and in 1506 was 'older than 14'., being born 'before 1492' . His parents
married
'circa 1490'. Which makes him 15 at the most. Where did you find his birth
as before
1488?

I checked, also with Gerald Paget's book on the ancestors of Prince Charles,
Sir Thomas St.Leger married Anne of York in 1472 or 1473, and their daughter
Anne was born in 1476. where did you find her being born about 1466?

To return to Elizabeth Manners, I have several children for her but, so far,
I have
the year of birth for only one. This is Margaret Savage, according to the
Complete Peerage, Volume II page 300, born in 1549.

I don't know why you did not give the later generations their titles and
simply recorded them as John, Thomas and Thomas Savage. Here is my version,
and this may give you a problem
with the last generation.

Elisabeth Manners was mother of
Sir John Savage, 1st Baronet
buried 14 July 1615 at Macclesfield
he married before 1582
Mary Allington
she was mention on 16 May 1636 (i.e. she was alive on that date)
daughter of Richard Allington and Jane Cordell
they were parents of
Sir Thomas Savage, Viscount Savage, 2nd Baronet
born circa 1586, died 20 November 1635 Tower Hill
married 14 May 1602
Elizabeth Darcy, Countess Rivers
she died 9 March 1650, buried at St.Osyths, Essex
daughter of Thomas Darcy, Earl Rivers, and Mary Kitson
they are parents of
Thomas Savage, of Beeston
married to Elizabeth Whitmore

In the Complete Peerage Volume VII page 431 is mentioned the marriage
of a daughter of Thomas Savage and Elizabeth Whitmore. Usually the Complete
Peerage states so-and-so, daughter of so-and-so and his 2nd wife so-and-so.
This was not done in this case, and so I wonder, your Faith Hutchinson, was
she
a mistress? Or is her name wrong?
Hope this helps a bit? Let me know about Faith Hutchinson, I am curious.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Perth, Western Australia


In your sample you
----- Original Message -----
From: Murry <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 7:11 AM
Subject: Anne Plantagenet Line Mistake?


> I am looking at the descendants of CECILY NEVILLE and RICHARD PLANTAGENET,
> Duke and Duchess of York Via their daughter ANNE PLANTAGENET and her
second
> husband Sir Thomas St. Leger.
>
> I have the following lineage:
>
> Anne Saint Leger (b Abt. 1466) m. Sir George Manners, 12th Lord Roos (b.
> Abt. 1465)
> Their son
> Thomas Manners, 1st Earl of Rutland (b. Bef. 1488) m. Eleanor Paston
> Their daughter
> Elizabeth Manners (b. Abt. 1506) m. John Savage (b. Abt. 1505)
> Their son
> John Savage (b. Abt. 1550) m. Mary Allington (b. Abt. 1548)
> Their son
> Thomas Savage (b. Abt. 1586) m. Elizabeth Darcy (b. Abt. 1584)
> Their son
> Thomas Savage (b. Abt. 1611) m. Faith Hutchinson (b. August 14, 1617)
>
> My biggest question here is Elizabeth Manners? The siblings I have for
her
> are all born much later. In the 1520's. Then she had her child at ~44
> years old. I know many people have "Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal:
> The Anne of Exeter Volume, Containing the Descendants of Anne
> (Plantagenet), Duchess of Exeter". Does it site Elizabeth manners as the
> child of Eleanor Paxton and Thomas Manners? Please help.
>
> Brandi Murry
>
> or
>
>
>
>

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