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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-01 > 0948984718


From: "Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr." <>
Subject: Ratings issues--and TAG & Pedigree
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:51:58 -0800


In the scientific world, medical discoveries are
usually preceded by tests performed on animals.
In the same light, I was wondering if rating issues
used for animal pedigrees could give insights to
the human equation. For example, if a prominent
family in the past had particular medical conditions,
could these be traced out within surviving records?
EXAMPLE: "The resulting rating indicates the probability
that the particular pedigree might produce an affected
individual and a carrier individual. That done, I factor in
the 'suspected carriers,' the parents, offspring and full-sibs
of proven carriers and give an additional rating."
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0183.htm

Could this be included as corroborating evidence to
establish a pedigree? Could a pedigree be rated
by the material property that was handed down
and validated by surviving personal property artifacts;
as documented, past or present? Etc.?

TopSires, at:
http://www.topsires.com/products.htm
This site suggests ratings such as:
? = Not enough data yet
+5 = The Best to -4 = The Worst

Another concept not heretofore mentioned in this
thread is the establishment of an Online Rate a Pedigree
or Link Connection. Members of GEN-MEDIEVAL
would then be given the opportunity, and feel free,
to vote: register a seasoned opinion. This would allow
an on-going review of record sources from the most
learned in the field of Medieval Genealogy and provide
a resource site for the justification of accepting a particular
link connection: the technical mechanics for a consensus.

For those concerned about data mining, use an understood
code number. Without further ramifications from an individual
evaluator, this would provide a pedigree link status, [using
the reputation of the the submitter], without revealing actual
database evidence. An open entry box could provide
others with the opportunity to share actual documentation,
as they considered it prudent.
SAMPLE FORMAT used online for other ratings:
"Harvard Research Group- Information Technology industry
market research and consulting company. (Added: 1999-08-16
Hits: 7255 Rating: 7.93 Votes: 1187) Rate It"
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/links-sql/demo/Consulting/Research_Services/more2.html

- -------------------------------------------
Janet Denham wrote:

> Chico: I for one found your presentation on Brazilian genealogical
> information quite interesting. I think that in the United States, the
> focus has been different for a variety of reasons. We have long had
> aristocratic families in our country that were aware and proud of their
> heritage. Conversely, many, many immigrants during the colonial period and
> especially thereafter were not closely related, if related at all, to middle
> and upper class societies in the old world. America was viewed as a land of
> opportunity for those who had no real prospects of success in the old
> societies. Also, the founding fathers of the US played heavily upon the
> lack of colonial representation in the government of colonial affairs. I
> think many Americans automatically have associated royalty and nobility with
> persons who were more concerned about pedigree and priviledge than about
> contributions to society. The French Revolution perhaps underscored that
> thinking, although we were not averse to receiving French aid during our
> struggle for independence. As a citizen of the United States, I am proud of
> my ancestry of hard-
> working farmers, pioneers, etc. Their contributions to me socially and
> genetically are
> very significant. I will give this example. Some months ago I was able to
> make the
> connection back to English nobility which led to Edward III. I was
> positively elated to
> add the pedigrees of so many historical persons to my own history. It has
> baffled me that so many of my friends and family are completely
> disinterested in this discovery.
> It doesn't make me any different than I was before, but I almost find myself
> apologizing if I raise the subject of my ancestry. It is a perplexing
> situation. I think we
> have a fascination in this country for old world titles and nobility but we
> are also taught to eschew such matters in favor of personal attainment.
> Perhaps one day there will be more of an ability in our society to accept
> the past, including genealogy, with a broader perspective. I am sure this
> opinion will not be shared by all but it is my own experience. Best
> regards.
>
> Lee Denham
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Francisco Antonio Doria <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Ratings issues--and TAG
>
> Let me give you an idea of how things are here in Brazil, when it comes
> to genealogical publications, and the whole field of genealogy. The main
> difference, I guess, stems from the fact that Brazil was a monarchy for
> most of its history - and an independent empire under Braganza princes
> until 1889. So, the early 20th century genealogical publications were
> more or less like libri d'oro della nobilità, lists of people descended
> from grantees of titles during the monarchy, and of those that had some
> kind of patent of nobility. This strong monarchical bias is evident in
> our more traditional genealogical societies, like the Colégio Brasileiro
> de Genealogia (founded 1948 out of a previously existing, informal,
> group; I'm one of its 40 full members). Its meetings are usually chaired
> by one of our princes, like D. Pedro Gastão or his sister D. Isabel,
> Countess of Paris.
>
> Most people from the old families are either successors to some title or
> are closely related to someone in that condition: my next-door neighbor
> is the ggdaughter of a Roman count; one of my first-cousins still has to
> register his Portuguese, 19th century viscountcy, and so on... Therefore,
> the original goal of our genealogical publications was (explicitly or in
> disguise) to reassert nobility rights, and they were intended as a kind
> of local Gotha, whose format was copied in the entries. (You must notice
> that this old élite was, also, the kernel of the early Republican élite:
> titles were common among the first high officers in the Republican
> governments, like the baron of Rio Branco, or even Republican leader and
> author of the Republican 1891 constitution, Ruy Barbosa, was in his own
> right a fidalgo de cota d'armas, a nobleman armiger.)
>
> More democratic genealogical societies, like the Brazilian Jewish
> Genealogical Society (of which I'm a honorary member), have only appeared
> in the last 15-20 years. A more technical, modern-style genealogical
> publication has only recently appeared, the _Boletim da ASBRAP_, whose
> editors are presently doing a very critical examination of the roots of
> most Colonial-period Brazilian families.
>
> Also, something that I'm always fascinated with is the difficulty you
> have (or seem to have) with your `gateways to royalty.' We have always
> known that people like Jerônimo de Albuquerque, Braz da Silva de Meneses,
> Luiza de Mello e Vasconcellos, the several members of the Moniz Barreto
> de Meneses family who came to Brazil, or Hierônimo Dornellas de Meneses e
> Vasconcelloss, were of ancient, noble or even royal stock, which can be
> easily traced - and if you can trace your family a few generations back
> into the Brazilian past, you'll end up by tying yourself in the descent
> of one of those people. (The élite was heavily inbred, and easily
> incorporated newcomers, that's why. I can later elaborate on this very
> peculiar amoeba-like behavior; they swallowed up, incorporated
> newcomers.)
>
> You never mention Colonial lineage books in the US. I suspect you had
> them, but that they were of no real import. We had three, the
> _Nobiliarquia Pernambucana_ (for northeastern Brazil), dated c. 1770, the
> _Catálogo Genealógico_ (for Bahia, dated c. 1780), and the _Nobiliarquia
> Paulistana_ (dated c. 1760, for São Paulo). They were written to reassert
> the status of the old, land-based, families, in front of a rapidly
> growing mercantile class. They were only published in the late 19th
> century, but had long been known and copied and expanded in ms form.
> Also, most Portuguese 17th and 18th century lineage books - the vast
> majority is still unpublished, but you can get microfilmed copies of them
> from the Torre do Tombo or from our own National Library, that has a few
> of them - have chapters on the Brazilian branches of those families they
> describe.
>
> I can add three specific situations: in the early 17th century letters
> were exchanged between the Drummonds in the Madeira and the earl of
> Perth, whereas the Portuguese Drummonds were `formally' acknowledged as
> members of the Scottish family. In the mid-18th century Antonfrancesco
> Acciaioli, marquess of Novi, sent for a kinsman in the Madeira in order
> to marry his eldest daughter, so that the agnatic family line wasn't
> broken. And following a doubting remark by Brazilian early 20th century
> sociologist Gilberto Freyre on the origin of the Brazilian Cavalcanti
> family - which he conjectured couldn't be of Florentine stock - i just
> had to write to the Archivio di Stato at Florence to get a facsimile of
> the original letters patent of nobility for Filippo Cavalcanti, who
> settled in Brazil around 1560.
>
> Therefore, when it comes to medieval genealogies, our main interests and
> focus are very different from yours in the US and generally coincide with
> those of current Portuguese researchers who are trying to clean up their
> (our) messy family origins. Also, only recently the goals in our
> genealogical publications have changed, and moved from the assertion of
> nobility rights to a more social-sciences dependent study of family
> patterns (my own wife does this kind of research, in connection with her
> psychiatric practice).
>
> Hope this summary will be of some use. Best,
>
> chico doria

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