Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-02 > 0949898888

From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Fergus of Galloway--Perhaps the Final Word
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:48:08 -0700

"Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson" <> wrote:

> If Elizabeth, the alleged (for Spencer's sake) daughter of
> Henry I and his Concubine Nesta, daughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr,
> who is listed in the Kings & Queens of England & Scotland by
> Allen Andrews, Published by Marshall Cavendish Books,
> 1994 edition: as the Prince of Wales 1081-1093 and here I
> Quote - page 95

Hold on a minute. We don't even know she was daughter of
Henry, let alone daughter by Nesta. What possible basis
could there be for this assignment?

> As a side note, in the hundreds of pages of paper on my desk
> there is a new reference to Nesta as Elizabeth's mother. When I
> find it, I will submit it.

I look forward to it.

> While there is no proof in the above of Nesta being the mother,
> or Rhys ap Tewdwr being the grandfather of Elizabeth, wife of
> Fergus of Galloway, it is where I will focus my efforts in trying
> to establish her heritage.


> However, if she was the granddaughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr, I'm sure
> she would not have been seen by Fergus of Galloway as a homeless
> waif or wanderer.

When, exactly, did Henry and Nesta take up with one
another? 15 years before he became king, when he was
seventeen and had no prospects? I think it was much later,
although we can't be certain.

> Henry I was 32 when he succeeded as King of England on the 2nd
> of August 1100 and I'm sure he had several concubine notches on his
> belt before marrying Matilda, daughter of King Malcolm III of Scotland,
> or for that matter, after he was married.

There is a big difference between having mistresses (a lot
of people who are not kings manage this) and having a
mistress, having a daughter by that mistress, and managing
to get that daughter married to one of the better noblemen
in Scotland before being king.

> Olaf I, King of Man 1102-1153, a son of Godred Crovan, and the
> husband of Aufrica, daughter of Fergus of Galloway & (Elizabeth
> Fitzhenry)

We don't know she was Aufrica's mother.

> was according to some articles, was brought up in the court of Henry I,
> of England. <<<<<Do you suppose thats how he met Aufrica?>>>>??

Anything is possible I guess, but with the close proximity
and historical ties between Man and Galloway, I am not sure
they needed to travel all the way to England just to meet
(and based on the typical pattern of medieval marriages,
they may not have met until they stood before the priest).


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