Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-02 > 0949948428

From: "Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson" <>
Subject: Re: Fergus of Galloway--Perhaps the Final Word
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:33:48 -0800

The piece of paper I was missing was the print out of
"Always optimistic--Dave's submission dated
2 Feb 2000 07:28:21 - 0800 at .
(still listed & not archived yet)
Todd's point on Aufrica's marriage to Olaf in 1102,
if correct certainly tightens up the time lines on the
I think we all have to wait until that book on Henry I's
bastards is on the market for the probable final word.
Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson
New Westminster, BC, Canada

"Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson" wrote:

> Todd A. Farmerie wrote'
> > "We don't know when Fergus was first connected with
> > Galloway. (Just because he wasn't in charge, doesn't mean
> > he wasn't from there.) Do we know that Elizabeth was mother
> > of Affrica? Affrica marries Olaf in 1102. If Elizabeth
> > were her mother, then that places Fergus's marriage to her
> > earlier than Henry I's succession, at a time when Henry was
> > wandering around looking for a role as the third son in a
> > realm with only two crowns. And Fergus married the
> > illegitimate daughter of this landless wanderer?"
> If Elizabeth, the alleged (for Spencer's sake) daughter of
> Henry I and his Concubine Nesta, daughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr,
> who is listed in the Kings & Queens of England & Scotland by
> Allen Andrews, Published by Marshall Cavendish Books,
> 1994 edition: as the Prince of Wales 1081-1093 and here I
> Quote - page 95
> "Meanwhile in the south, a chief named Rhys ap Tewdwr
> (1081-1093) had been recgonized by William the Conqueror
> as Lord of Deheubarth on payment of 40 pounds a year, a rent
> which is recorded in the Domesday book". Unquote.
> Quote- page 36
> "Mistresses- the most notable of many is Nesta, daughter of
> Rhys ap Tewdwr (Tudor), ruling prince of South Wales".Unquote.
> Quote - page 36
> "Bastards - Henry generously acknowledged 20 illegitimate children,
> which is presumed to be only a selection of his offspring. The most
> notable is the learned Robert, Earl of Cloucester, whom he dearly
> loved and who voluntarily renounced the disputed succession on the
> gound of his illegitimacy, notwithstanding the success of his
> grandfather,
> the Conqueror." Unquote
> As a side note, in the hundreds of pages of paper on my desk
> there is a new reference to Nesta as Elizabeth's mother. When I
> find it, I will submit it.
> While there is no proof in the above of Nesta being the mother,
> or Rhys ap Tewdwr being the grandfather of Elizabeth, wife of
> Fergus of Galloway, it is where I will focus my efforts in trying
> to establish her heritage.
> However, if she was the granddaughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr, I'm sure
> she would not have been seen by Fergus of Galloway as a homeless
> waif or wanderer.
> Henry I was 32 when he succeeded as King of England on the 2nd
> of August 1100 and I'm sure he had several concubine notches on his
> belt before marrying Matilda, daughter of King Malcolm III of Scotland,
> or for that matter, after he was married.
> Olaf I, King of Man 1102-1153, a son of Godred Crovan, and the
> husband of Aufrica, daughter of Fergus of Galloway & (Elizabeth
> Fitzhenry)
> was according to some articles, was brought up in the court of Henry I,
> of England. <<<<<Do you suppose thats how he met Aufrica?>>>>??
> > > This union with Fergus and Somerled is another link in the
> > > evidence that Fergus was of Norse origin.
> >
> I, for one don't believe they were of Norse origin. More to follow
> on that, but I've got to do more homework on the matter,
> or Spencer will get me ;-)
> Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson
> New Westminster, BC, Canada

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