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From: "Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson" <>
Subject: Re: Fergus of Galloway--Perhaps the Final Word
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:51:15 -0800


Spencer: Please be advised this posting may be to long for you.;-)

"Todd A. Farmerie" wrote:

> "We don't know when Fergus was first connected with
> Galloway. (Just because he wasn't in charge, doesn't mean
> he wasn't from there.) Do we know that Elizabeth was mother
> of Affrica? Affrica marries Olaf in 1102. If Elizabeth
> were her mother, then that places Fergus's marriage to her
> earlier than Henry I's succession, at a time when Henry was
> wandering around looking for a role as the third son in a
> realm with only two crowns. And Fergus married the
> illegitimate daughter of this landless wanderer?"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd & Group
I'm being overrun by recent posts on this topic. This post is only
submitted to deal with the date in the above paragraph submitted
by Todd where he states "Aufrica married Olaf in 1102".
History, that I believe is accepted that Olaf also had a marriage with
Ingibjorg, dau of Hakon, Jarl of Orkney, plus some concubines.
At some stage he fathered Reginald, Lagman, Harald and dau. Ragnahildis,
the wife of Somerled. I believe that these descendants were born before
their half brother Godred IV from Olaf's marriage to Aufrica.

The following items of history are quoted from the 'Illustrated Encyclopedia of the
Isle Of Man' originally compiled by David T. Wedder, F.R.I.C.S, Revised by Frank
Cowin, F.R.C.I.S and F.J. Radcliffe, B.A. and edited by Gordon N. Kniveton. This
edition published 1997 by the Manx Experience, 45 Slieau Dhoo, Tromode Park,
Douglas, Isle of Man IM2 5LG
Tele: 44 624 627727 - Fax 44 624 663627- email; .

Quote page 66-67
GODRED CROVAN. King of Man, 1079-1095, Son of Harald the Black and probably a
descendant of the 10th century Olaf Cuaran, King of Dublin. Godred came from
Islay. He is first noted in 1066 when he faught on the side of Harald Hardraada at
Stamford Bridge. Godred King of Man
(d. 1075) received him hospitably, but shortly there after Fingal, Godred's son
succeeded to the throne. Godred Crovan was attempting to take the Kingship of Man
for himself. The 'Chronicles of the Kings of Man and the Isles' describes fully
how, at the third attempt, Crovan defeated Fingal's forces near Skyhill. He had
hidden three hundred men in a wood on the hill slope and these emerged to attack
Fingal's forces in the rear at the height of the battle. It was high tide and the
retreating Manx forces were pinned between the flooded Sulby River and the enemy.
Godred had mercy on his defeated enemies 'since he had been reared among them for
some time'. Godred led further campaigns in Ireland around Dublin, which he held
for a few years and also tamed the Scots of Galloway. According to an Irish source
he died of plague on Islay in 1095. This nickname 'Crovan' could be taken to read
'white hand / gauntlet', but in Irish sources it is 'Meranach', literally
'fingers'. He is generally held to be the 'King Orry' of Manx tradition. He was
able to weld the Hebrides and Man into one kingdom and probably had an 'Althing' of
the Isle composed of 32 representatives - 16 from Man and 16 from the Hebrides. He
seems to have been able to achieve all this because of a power vacuum from
weakening amongst the former overlords of Man, the Earls of Orkney and the Kings of
Dublin. His dynasty lasted almost two hundred years.
Unquote
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comment by L.R. (Andy) Anderson: There is evidence that Godred Crovan had four
sons: Ingemund d.c. 1097, Lagman, King of Man d.c. 1096/7, Harald, and Olaf d. 29
June 1153. I know of no factual evidence that lists a mother for these sons.
While family sources say that Godred Crovan married Ragnhild Maria Haraldsdotter
(Hardraada-King of Norway-d 25 Sept 1066 - Stamford Bridge) there is to my
knowledge, no proof of that. However, it is possible, as before mentioned, Godred
was a supporter of Harald's at Stamford Bridge, that he may have married Maria in
Norway or the Orkneys before they left for England, however, history only tells us
that Maria died mysteriously 25 Sept 1066, in the Orkneys, the same day as her
father at Stamford Bridge.

The next King of Man.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote: page 90
LAGMAN. One of the three sons of Godred Crovan, he succeeded his father in 1095 as
King of Man. His brother Harald, stirred up civil war but was captured in battle
and brutally mutilated by Lagman. Lagman in repentance for his evil deed died on
the First Crusade. Unquote
Quote: page 177
Lagman becomes King but takes the cross of the Crusaders after putting out the eyes
of the rebellious Harald, and dies in Jerusalem in 1096. During the minority of
Olaf, there is great uncertainty (including the occupation of King Magnus of Norway
1098-1103) until the return of Olaf from the court of King Henry I of England.
Unquote
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next King of Man
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote: page 116-117
OLAF I. King of Man, 1102-1153. Also known as Olaf the Red or Dwarf, he was one of
the three sons of Godred Crovan, but being a minor at the time of succsession, the
King of Ireland appointed a kinsman, Donald, to act as regent. Donald rendered
himself so obnoxious to the Manx people that he was expelled from the Island in the
third year of his reign. In 1114 the Norse made a fruitless attempt to regain the
sovereignty of the Island but the Chiefs agreed to call Olaf, who was now of age,
to the throne of his father (c:1113). <<minor snip on churches>> Olaf secured
peace to his dominions by contracting a marriage with Aufrica, daughter of Fergus,
Prince of Galloway. He was slain at a conference at Ramsey in 1153 by his nephew,
Reginald, who was later captured and slain. Olaf was succeeded by his son Godred
II. Unquote
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From the above paragraph we see that Olaf was now considered "of age" in or about
the year 1113. He would have clearly been a minor in 1102 when Todd states above
that Olaf married Aufrica in 1102. That date for the marriage has to be seen as
wrong.

Henry I, of England was born in 1068 (from the Kings & Queens of England &
Scotland). In 1090 he would have been 22 years of age. There clearly would have
been time (to spare) for him to have fathered Elizabeth with Nesta, daughter of
Rhyes ap Tewdwr to have Elizabeth old enough to marry Fergus of Galloway in time to
have Aufrica in time to marry Olaf and between them to father Godred II who became
his successor when he was murdered in 1153.

And if Olaf contracted the marriage to Aufrica with Fergus of Galloway, as above
stated, Fergus most of held power over the region in the 1030s & 40s and most
likely part of the 1050s. Fergus had retired to the Abby at Edinburgh Castle by
the late 1050s and died in 1061.

In closing, it is my opinion, from a time line point of view, it is entirely
plausible that Henry I. of England could in fact, have fathered Elizabeth via his
concubine, Nesta. I believe there is enough evidence in history to accept that
this concubine relationship between Henry and Nesta did exist.
I further believe there was clearly suffient time for Elizabeth to then marry
Fergus and have Aufrica to be of an age to marry Olaf I with time to spare to
father Godred to be of age to be his successor in 1153.

And so sayth ;-)

Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson
New Westminster, BC, Canada

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