GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-02 > 0950564215
From: Chris Pitt Lewis <>
Subject: Re: Fw: The Battle of Poitiers/Tours
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:36:55 +0000
In article <>, Matthew Harley
>Renia Simmonds wrote:
>> Comment below.
>> Matthew Harley wrote:
>> > It's very simple. He was the second Louis duc d'Orléans and he became
>> > King Louis of France, twelfth of that name. I'm not sure if he continued
>> > to hold his old title as duc Louis II d'Orléans as well as roi Louis XII
>> > de France.
>> Why should he, as he now had a superior title. Having been Louis II Duc
>> he was now Louis XII de France.
>It seems to me there was some politics in his use of title. Regal titles
>predominate but certainly foreign claims to lesser titles were
>emphasised. He went to great lengths to be able to do homage to
>Maximilian, King of the Romans, for the dukedom of Milan in 1505. Here
>is the opening of a letter of his of May 1505:
>"Nous Loys par la grace de dieu Roy de France, de Sicille et Ierusalem,
>duc de Milan, seigneur de Gennes...."
>Before he lost Naples in 1504 he also styled himself "Roi de Naples".
>So a humble duc's title and even more lowly seigneur's title was good
>enough when foreign policy was the game.
>But what happens to his own duché while he is king? And perhaps more
>important, what happens to the revenues from his duché? Does he remain
>the titular duc but just doesn't use that "inferior" title? I can't
>imagine his duché goes to someone else during his lifetime. But then
>there are apanages and all that of course.
>A complicated business as Leo says.
Is the distinction here between titles that were subordinate to his
Kingdom (eg Orleans), which he does not use, because they add nothing,
and those that were "foreign" (eg Milan and Genoa) which he does use?
But this doesn't seem to explain German or Spanish practice.
Chris Pitt Lewis
|Re: Fw: The Battle of Poitiers/Tours by Chris Pitt Lewis <>|