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From: Vickie Elam White <>
Subject: Countess Ida Mother of William de Longespee
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:52:48 -0400


Ronny Bodine wrote --

> Will someone please cite the published reference where William de
Longespee
> refers to his mother as Countess Ida? I have been unable to find that
> particular posting in DejaNews among the many that were involved in this
topic
> some time back and now find a need for it.

Below is a copy of a post made by Kay Allen on 3/28/97 under the subject
"Re: Countess Ida/Cartulary of Bradenstoke priory.

Hope this helps.

Vickie Elam White


***************************************************************************
*****

Lurking, I have received much. Since it is better to give than to
receive, here is a contribution.

London, Vera C. M., ed. *The Cartulary of Bradenstoke Priory* Volume
XXXV for the year 1979, Wiltshire Record Society. (Impression of 450
copies)

pp. 8-9:

...
"THE CONTENT OF THE CARTULARIES

These cartularies contain material of considerable interest, especially
to genealogists working on the families of Wiltshire and
Gloucestershire, and also to the student of place-names and field-names.
To the historian the most important charters are two which offer a clue
to the very old mystery concerning the mother of William Longespee,
illegitimate son of Henry II. For a long period it was supposed that she
was Rosamund Clifford, but in recent years it has generall accepted
that her identity is unknown.1 In these two charters William Longespee,
earl of Salisbury, refers to his mother as Comitissa Ida, mater mea(481)
and Ida comitissa, mater mea(646). These entries occur in two different
manuscripts and in different topographical sections and seem unlikely to
be the result of scribal error. Slight confirmation can be found for
them in the fact that one of William's daughters was christened Ida.
Much work will be needed before a positive identification of Countess
Ida can be made, but it is worth noting that the grand-daughter of King
Stephen by Mary, his daughter (wife of Matthew count of Flanders), was
named Ida and was countess of Boulogne in her own right.
...
1 The one contrary opinion is that she was Alice Poerhoet. W.L.Sheppard,
'The Bastards of Henry II', *The Genealogists' Magazine*, XIV(1964),
pp.361-8."

The charters themselves are translations and abstractions.

p. 143 GLOUCESTERSHIRE
"...
481 [1197 x 1226] Gift in alms by William Longespee, earl of Salisbury,
for the souls of Ela, his wife, and the Countess Ida, his mother, of all
the land in Hatherop which Ralph de Parco held while he lived. The
canons to hold of the earl, quit of all service. Warranty. Seal.
Witnesses: Master T. de Chebeham subdean of Salisbury, Reynold of
Whitchurch, Jn. de Mohun, Rob. de Crevequer constable of Salisbury,
Lambert the German, Everard the German his brother, Thos. de Cormeilles,
Rog. of Durnford, Ives son of Warin, Geof. le Veel, Jn. onet, Rob. son
of Geof., Mat. the clerk, Wm. of Canford.
..."

p.188 APPENDIX II

"...
646 [1198 x 1226] Gift in alms by William Longespee, earl of Salisbury,
for the soul of Countess Ida, his mother, of 1/2 virgate in Chitterne,
which Tresmund Culling held and 1/2 virgate which R. Algar held in the
same township. Seal. Witnesses: Wal. de Rivers, P.burdon, W. Talbot, S.
of Cheverell, T. of Canford, Master W. the clerk, R. of Wheathampstead.
..."

So it shows that William strongly believed that his mother was an Ida of
comital rank. When you are slinging around money, which land
represents, surely you aren't going to pray for a non-entity.

now, we must wait for what Mr Richardson will divulge

Kay Allen (NOT G. Edward)

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