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From: "The Thill Group, Inc." <>
Subject: de Clare, de Stafford, de Audley, Beke, Swynnerton ekkkkkk!
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:09:53 -0500


Could someone more learned help me? Was given "Long" ago our family lineage.
Problem: The top 4 generations seem fine. Generation 5 is with the wrong
mother which causes the family group to go to King Henry I, instead of
Edward I. The person responsible for this group insists that the line is
correct and goes to Edward I.

When this person was questioned I was told the sources were:
The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215,
Adams-Weis
Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, V. i, von
Redlich, & V. 2 & 3 by other compilers, with these 3 volumes being the
lineage's from the Nat'l Soc. Desc. of Charlemagne; the line was approved
by Timothy Field Beard, noted in Medieval genealogy, former head of the NYC
pub lib gen. dept., a Fellow of the American Society of Genealogist

Lineage in Question:
1. Edward I, King of England b. 6/17/1239 m. Eleanor of Castile.
2. Princess Joan Plantagenet b. 1272 m. Sir Gilbert de Clare.
3. Margaret de Clare b. 1292 m. Hugh de Audley, Earl of Gloucester

This is where the problem comes in...
4. Margaret de Audley d. 9/17/1349 m. Sir Ralph de Stafford (Knight) b. 1299
Which is correct, but next generation is:
5. Jane De Stafford m. Sir Nicholas Beke (Knight)

I find that Jane de Stafford is actually the child of the other wife of Sir
Ralph de Stafford (2)Katherine Hastang.
And if that is true then the line goes up to Henry I, not to Edward (as it
would if Margaret de Audley was Jane's mother).

6. Elizabeth Beke m. Sir Robert Swynnerton d. ca. 1395
7. Maud Swynnerton b. ca 1370 m. Sir John Savage, Knight of Clifton.
8 Margaret Savage d. 1469. m. 1428 Sir John Dutton of Dutton d. 1443
Ellen Dutton d. 1466 m. Edward Langford (Longford), Esq. of Ruthen.
9. Janet Langford (Longford) born Denbigsline, Ruthen m. Simond Thelwall

Ok.. so my question is.. from generation 5 & 6 does anyone see a way that
this group goes up to Edward 1 as she says?

Below is the line as she has it.
(In the below listed generations I removed the 5 & 6 generations below
before displaying it above. They proved out to belong to another family
group not this one.)

Lineage as was given to me originally:
1. Edward 1, King of England b. 6/17/1239 d. 7/7/1307 m 10/18/1254 Eleanor
DePonthieu b. 1244 d. 11/24/1290
2. Child: Joan Plantagenet, Princess b. 1272 d. 4/23/1307 m. 4/30/1290 Sir
Gilbert DeClare b. 9/2/1243 d. 12/07/1295
3. Child: Margaret DeClare b. 10/1292 d. 9/16/1348 m. 4/28/1317 Hugh
DeAudley, Earl of Gloucester
4. Child: Margaret DeAudley b. abt 1325 d. 9/16/1348 m. bef 7/6/1336
RalphDeStafford, Knight b. 9/24/1301
5. Child: John DeStafford, Knight of Co. Stafford m. Margaret
6. Child: Ralph DeStafford, of Grafton to Worcester d. 8/31/1372 m. Maud
DeHastang b. 2/2/1358
7. Child: Jane DeStafford m. Sir Nicholas Beke, Knight
8. Child: Elizabeth Beke d. 1373 m. 1356 Robert DeSwinnerton (DeSwynnerton)
9. Child: Maud Matilda DeSwynnerton b. 1367 d. 1415 m. abt 1398 John Savage,
Knight b. abt 1370
10. Child: Margaret Savage b. abt 1387 d. 1469 m. 1418 Sir John Dutton, of
Dutton b. 1403 d. 1445
11. Child: Ellen Eleanor Dutton b. abt 1433 d. 1466 m Edward Richard
Langford, Sq. of Ruthen b. abt. 1431
12. Child: Janet Langford b. abt 1461 m. abt 1488 Simond Thelwal b. abt
1457
13. Child: Alice Thelwall b. 1488 m. abt 1509 Harri Wynne ap Cynric b. 1485
14. Child: John Wynne ap Harri b. abt 1510 d. 1572 m. Katherine Jenkins
Verch Ithel, daughter of Ithel
15. Child: Rees Ap John Wynne b. 1538 d. 1592 m. 1563
16. Child: John ap Rees b. 1570 d. 1640 m. 10/29/1588 Grace Morgan at
Bodfore Church
17. Child: Thomas ap John b. 12/20/1589 d. 1639 m. 1638
18. Child: Dr. Thomas Wynne b. 7/20/1627 d. 1/17/1692 m. bet 1655-1657
Martha Elizabeth Buttall b. 1627

HELP!!!! please.
Thanking you in advance for your concideration,
Becky T.

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