GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-07 > 0964082594
From: Douglas Richardson <>
Subject: Re: de Clare, de Stafford, de Audley, Beke, Swynnerton ekkkkkk!
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:43:14 -0700
I researched the matter of your Nicholas de Beke's wife as part
of my work for the forthcoming book, Magna Carta Ancestry, which
book is scheduled for publication shortly by NEHGS in Boston.
There are two sources which mention Nicholas de Beke's wife's
identity. They are as follows:
1. 1580 Visitation of Cheshire, published in 1881, as Harleian
Society Publications, volume 18, page 201: "Sir Nicholas Beck =
Jane d. of Rafe L:Stafford & of Katherin Hastang"
2. 1580 Visitation of Cheshire, pg. 203: "Sir Nicho' Beck = ...
d[aughter] to the good Lord Stafford"
I understand that contemporary records elsewhere confirm that
Sir Nicholas Beke's wife was named Joan.
If the 1580 Visitation of Cheshire above is correct, then you
obviously lose the Plantagenet descent from Ralph de Stafford's
second wife, Margaret de Audley. Instead, as indicated above,
Joan, wife of Sir Nicholas de Beke, would be the child of Earl
Ralph's first wife, Katherine Hastang.
The following colonial immigrants descend from Sir Nicholas de
Beke and his wife, Joan. Immigrants listed below have one
descent each, unless noted otherwise.
1. Robert Abell (two descents)
2. Thomas Booth (two descents)
3. Thomas Bressey
4. Obadiah Bruen, of Conn. (two descents)
5. Rev. Peter Bulkeley, Elizabeth Bulkeley (wife of Richard
Whittingham), Martha Bulkeley (wife of Abraham Mellowes)
6. Alice, Agatha, Eleanor, Jane & Martha Eltonhead
7. Thomas Gerard
8. Olive Ingoldsby, wife of Rev. Thomas James
9. Oliver Manwaring (three descents)
10. Thomas Owsley
11. Elizabeth Saint John
12. Olive (Welby) Farwell
13. Amy Wyllys
For the specific descents from Sir Nicholas de Beke down to the
individual colonials, please consult the Magna Carta book when
Best always, Douglas Richardson
(The Thill Group, Inc.) wrote:
>Could someone more learned help me? Was given "Long" ago our
>Problem: The top 4 generations seem fine. Generation 5 is with
>mother which causes the family group to go to King Henry I,
>Edward I. The person responsible for this group insists that
the line is
>correct and goes to Edward I.
>When this person was questioned I was told the sources were:
>The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215,
>Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, V.
>Redlich, & V. 2 & 3 by other compilers, with these 3 volumes
>lineage's from the Nat'l Soc. Desc. of Charlemagne; the line
>by Timothy Field Beard, noted in Medieval genealogy, former
head of the NYC
>pub lib gen. dept., a Fellow of the American Society of
>Lineage in Question:
>1. Edward I, King of England b. 6/17/1239 m. Eleanor of Castile.
>2. Princess Joan Plantagenet b. 1272 m. Sir Gilbert de Clare.
>3. Margaret de Clare b. 1292 m. Hugh de Audley, Earl of
>This is where the problem comes in...
>4. Margaret de Audley d. 9/17/1349 m. Sir Ralph de Stafford
(Knight) b. 1299
>Which is correct, but next generation is:
>5. Jane De Stafford m. Sir Nicholas Beke (Knight)
>I find that Jane de Stafford is actually the child of the other
wife of Sir
>Ralph de Stafford (2)Katherine Hastang.
>And if that is true then the line goes up to Henry I, not to
Edward (as it
>would if Margaret de Audley was Jane's mother).
>6. Elizabeth Beke m. Sir Robert Swynnerton d. ca. 1395
>7. Maud Swynnerton b. ca 1370 m. Sir John Savage, Knight of
>8 Margaret Savage d. 1469. m. 1428 Sir John Dutton of Dutton d.
>Ellen Dutton d. 1466 m. Edward Langford (Longford), Esq. of
>9. Janet Langford (Longford) born Denbigsline, Ruthen m. Simond
>Ok.. so my question is.. from generation 5 & 6 does anyone see
a way that
>this group goes up to Edward 1 as she says?
>Below is the line as she has it.
>(In the below listed generations I removed the 5 & 6
>before displaying it above. They proved out to belong to
>group not this one.)
>Lineage as was given to me originally:
>1. Edward 1, King of England b. 6/17/1239 d. 7/7/1307 m
>DePonthieu b. 1244 d. 11/24/1290
>2. Child: Joan Plantagenet, Princess b. 1272 d. 4/23/1307 m.
>Gilbert DeClare b. 9/2/1243 d. 12/07/1295
>3. Child: Margaret DeClare b. 10/1292 d. 9/16/1348 m. 4/28/1317
>DeAudley, Earl of Gloucester
>4. Child: Margaret DeAudley b. abt 1325 d. 9/16/1348 m. bef
>RalphDeStafford, Knight b. 9/24/1301
> 5. Child: John DeStafford, Knight of Co. Stafford m. Margaret
>6. Child: Ralph DeStafford, of Grafton to Worcester d.
8/31/1372 m. Maud
>DeHastang b. 2/2/1358
>7. Child: Jane DeStafford m. Sir Nicholas Beke, Knight
>8. Child: Elizabeth Beke d. 1373 m. 1356 Robert DeSwinnerton
>9. Child: Maud Matilda DeSwynnerton b. 1367 d. 1415 m. abt 1398
>Knight b. abt 1370
>10. Child: Margaret Savage b. abt 1387 d. 1469 m. 1418 Sir
John Dutton, of
>Dutton b. 1403 d. 1445
>11. Child: Ellen Eleanor Dutton b. abt 1433 d. 1466 m Edward
>Langford, Sq. of Ruthen b. abt. 1431
>12. Child: Janet Langford b. abt 1461 m. abt 1488 Simond
Thelwal b. abt
>13. Child: Alice Thelwall b. 1488 m. abt 1509 Harri Wynne ap
Cynric b. 1485
>14. Child: John Wynne ap Harri b. abt 1510 d. 1572 m. Katherine
>Verch Ithel, daughter of Ithel
>15. Child: Rees Ap John Wynne b. 1538 d. 1592 m. 1563
>16. Child: John ap Rees b. 1570 d. 1640 m. 10/29/1588 Grace
>17. Child: Thomas ap John b. 12/20/1589 d. 1639 m. 1638
>18. Child: Dr. Thomas Wynne b. 7/20/1627 d. 1/17/1692 m. bet
>Martha Elizabeth Buttall b. 1627
>Thanking you in advance for your concideration,
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|Re: de Clare, de Stafford, de Audley, Beke, Swynnerton ekkkkkk! by Douglas Richardson <>|