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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-07 > 0964580064


From: "Barrie J. Wright" <>
Subject: Re: Australian Indigenous People
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:24:24 +0930


Malinda,
You have an unhistorical and very romantic view of the past generally, and
of Australian aboriginal culture in particular. Remove the rosy pink
glasses.

NO culture 'remains exactly the same' for eons. Aborigines had an oral
culture that was as rich as others but no more. It could not accurately
record and trace changes in their cultural development as well any written
culture can do. So we simply cannot make accurate generalisations about
them -- such as saying they were 'peaceful' or 'mystical' etc.

Much nonsense is spoken about how these first Australians 'maintained a
perfect relationship with the land, preserving it in pristine condition for
40,000 years' etc.
As a small population, all with stone age technology until about 1780, they
of course had a much smaller impact than Europeans or themsleves since.
However, Captain Bligh of The Bounty fame visited Tasmania [twice] in the
late 1700s and saw bushfires started by the untouched inhabitants. These
were not always benign or controlled over 40,000 years! They may have made
some species extinct by their hunting too [eg giant marsupials]. Who
knows??

The aborigines developed about 300 dialects and languages, a pretty good
pointer to the huge diversity and change among them over time, just like any
other people anywhere.

It is a myth that they made maps as accurate as a bird's eye view from 5,000
feet -- anywhere.
They did illustrate their Dreaming stories about their origins with crude
maps, and probably described some territorial claims well with sand and some
rock drawings. But that's all.
The fact that their art remained limited in style and lasted on concealed
rocks does NOT mean it did not change, or is a 'time capsule' of
extra-ordinary value and depth of content. Compared with all the knowledge
in ancient Egypt on stone and plaster for instance, it is trivial in the
extreme.
Their hidden talent for art has blossomed incredibly in recent
decades --thanks to synthetic paints and colours we all now use!

If you believe they had great astronomical skills, you also need to explain
how this failed to be translated into other technological developments. In
40,000 years they seem not to have created any settlements or lasting
buildings at all.
Not much sign of higher maths.

I am not trying to put down their culture. They have great bush tracking
skills and great knowledge of local plants [all empirically based], but
spare me the gush about powerful esoteric, mystical New Age knowledge.

The greatest need our Aboriginals have today is to realise that they cannot
solve their health and diet problems [including now AIDS] while also
insisting on living in unhealthy, isolated camps far from any modern
sanitation and medicine, while importing only large amounts of grog bought
with 'sit-down money'. The wise among them know it is these new choices that
are their greatest enemy, and their long, unique [and largely unrecoverable]
past can't help them here.

"a living time capsule of our own distant past".??
Personally, my Neanderthal forebears lived quite differently....
"What have we lost from our own Stone Age past ?"
About 99.9999 %.

Barrie J. Wright
GLENELG EAST, 5045
in Adelaide, South Australia


----- Original Message -----
From: malinda jones <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, 23 July 2000 10:53
Subject: Re: Australian Indigenous People


> There is also the perspective that the Aborigine heritage (Way of
Life...LAW) is
> a World Treasure that is being destroyed.
>
> It is my understanding (unfortunately limited) that part of their "Law"
has been
> to remain exactly the same throughout the eons of time....5,000 + years.
This is
> a gift to the rest of us......a living time capsule of our own distant
past.
>
> And wonder filled....for instance, in Aborigine art (again no change for
> thousands of years) there are paintings that depict local landscapes....as
they
> appear from an altitude of 5,000 feet in the air. Pilots who have flown
over
> these areas say they are extremely accurate.
>
> How did people leading a "Stone Age" existence "know" these
things?......what
> have we lost from our own Stone Age past ? There are thousand year old +
cave
> paintings left by Bushmen which depict star formations that have only been
> recently discovered (or re-discovered) with the advent of the latest
generation
> of high powered lenses..............how did they know about them thousands
of
> years ago ? What secret knowledge have we lost
>
> There is a powerful mysticism that is in jeopardy.....what knowledge is
about to
> be lost ?
>
> malinda
>
> Leo van de Pas wrote:
>
> > Dear Frank,
> > In some cases you may be correct and in others you are not.
> > For several years there is much in the Australian press about children
being
> > sexually abused in the institutions they were supposedly being cared
for.
> > Only last week a statue, honouring a priest, was beheaded by people who
had
> > been abused sexually by him. There are whole groups of people who have
been
> > united in a joint legal action to get compensation from the church. And
> > that then were the white children, mostly orphans or they were told
> > (wrongly) they were orphans, who were sent out from England.
> >
> > To know where you belong is a very important aspect in growing up. Why
else
> > do people involve themselves with genealogy? Some, a very few, of
> > Aboriginal children have benefitted from their being taken away from
their
> > parents.
> > Those few are held up as though that system was a success story but,
> > conventiently, those many more whose lives were shattered are being
> > overlooked.
> >
> > I believe, Aboriginal people are in many ways very different from white
> > people. They are much more gregarious with each other and, when in need
or
> > even when not in need, they share much more with each other. They do not
own
> > the land they
> > are claiming, the land owns them. There is much more than just having a
roof
> > above your head and a regular meal to bringing up children. I believe
the
> > ill-conceived idea of the government of taking half-breed cast children
from
> > their parents was a very cruel thing to do. Just thing of the heart-ache
of
> > their mothers and fathers, uncles and aunts, grandparents.
> >
> > To know where you belong involves also being told stories by your
parents,
> > often also traditional culture---all of those they were denied. Just
because
> > "some" parents were bad parents does not justify the wholesale removal
of
> > children. Often in cases of "some bad parents" there were uncles and
aunts
> > to fill the gaps.
> > Best wishes
> > Leo van de Pas
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Frank Martin <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 12:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: Australian Indigenous People
> >
> > > A very reasonable view.
> > >
> > > Many people who were raised away from their parents may have had the
best
> > > deal under the circumstances.
> > > Some parents cannot handle the child-raising process for one reason or
the
> > > other, and although institutions seem regimented and artificial at
least
> > the
> > > basic needs of the child are catered for with regards to basic
education,
> > > vaccination, and care etc.
> > > More abuse occurs in families than in institutions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Tony Ingham" <> wrote in message
> > > news:...
> > > > Golly Susan,
> > > >
> > > > You've struck a raw nerve with your last mail.
> > > >
> > > > I am descended from George Muckray (my GGF) who also happened to be
a
> > > > full-blood aboriginal. He married a white woman and raised 13
children
> > > > to adulthood. He was a Gun Shearer, a foundation member of the
> > > > Australian Workers' Union and regarded by all and sundry as a pretty
> > > > good bloke.
> > > > As you can imagine all his descendents have a fair idea of the
treatment
> > > > meted out to mixed-blood Australians.
> > > > My Grandmother, his daughter, was a great admirer of Daisy Bates and
her
> > > > tireless work to ease the plight of the Nullabor aborigines.
> > > > As a schoolboy I remember well playing a game of football organised
by
> > > > our Nuns against a team from the Largs Bay Orphanage. Those little
boys
> > > > were all children removed from their mixed-blood parents and living
with
> > > > the Nuns. I believe that Charles Perkins may have been one of them.
> > > > Most of themixed-blood children were removed to religious
> > > > establishments. The Hermannsburg Mission is probably one of the best
> > > > known.
> > > >
> > > > The SOLE purpose of the removal was to provide moral guidance for
the
> > > > children and give them a chance to make good in a society removed
from
> > > > the native camps. The behaviour in the camps even today would have
to be
> > > > seen to be believed. But who are we to pass judgement?
> > > >
> > > > It is all very well for today's dogooders to take the moral high
ground
> > > > on this issue. Our lifestyle is so far removed from that of the 30's
and
> > > > 40's that we could be living on a different planet. Remember that
most
> > > > of the white community in Australia were in dire straits during
those
> > > > time. I speak here from personal experience.
> > > >
> > > > Enough of this.
> > > >
> > > > Tony Ingham
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> ______________________________

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