Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-09 > 0968159486

From: "Alexander Golovanov" <>
Subject: Lyderic
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 13:11:26 GMT

According to "Annales of Flandres" by the chronicler Oudegherst (XVI
century), at the beginning of VII century, the lord of the castle of Buc
(founded ca.55 BC) was a giant called Phinaert. In 620, Salvaert, prince of
Dijon fled to England with his wife Emergaert, who then became pregnant.
Salvaert arrived at the country of Buc in a forest named 'without mercy' (it
held its name because of the many crimes which had committed Phinaert).

Thus, crossing this wood, Salvaert and its escort were murdered by Phinaert,
and only Emergaert escaped. She gave a birth to her son, then let herself
capture after having hidden the new-born baby in a hedge. That child was
found by a hermit of the name of Lyderic , which baptized it of this name.
18 years-old Lyderic (who was in the service of king of England) went to
Soissons to accuse Phinaert in the precence of king Dagobert, who granted a
legal duel to him.

The duel had place (morning, 6 o'clock, 15 June 640), and Lyderic killed
Phinaert giant. The king then gave him the administration of the country and
the goods of Phinaert. The inhabitants, released of the tyrant flow then
towards the castle... Such would be the origin of the Lille city.

Other sources gave the following Lyderic's descendants (as Counts of
Flanders, in fact only forresters [or counts] of Harlebec, because the first
margrave of Flanders was Baldwin I the Iron Arm):

1.Lyderic I (d.676) - identical to Lyderic above (therefore [one
source gave him married in 641 to Rotilde, daughter of Dagobert I by
Nantilde and died in 648]
2.Burchard (d.690)
3.Estored (d.709)
4.Lyderic II (d.734)
5.Lyderic III (d.776)
6.Lyderic IV (d.808)
7.Lyderic V (d.837)
8.Ingelram II(d.853)

Ingelram II had a daughter who married to Odakar III des Morins (aka
Anachar). Another version: Odakar was son of Ingelram II and married to the
daughter of Anselme de St.Pol & de St.Omer.

One source mentions #7 as Count of Herlebec, "kalles ogs Charles" (called
also Charles) and therefore identifies him with Charles the Younger - Duke
of Ingelheim [at Rheinland-Pfalz (Mainz area)], King of Neustria(790-811).
Charles( Dec 811) was a son of Charlemagne by Hildegarde of
Vinzgau. His wife Juliana was a daughter of Rowland (= nephew of Charlemagne
[as son of Milon, Ct of Angleria, by Berta, sister of Charlemagne], the
Breton margrave killed by the Basques during Charlemagne's retreating across
the Pyrenees in 778) and therefore a daughter of cousin of her husband.

Odakar III des Morins was one of possible fathers of Baldwin I the Iron Arm,
the 1st hereditary margrave of Flanders ("Marchio Flandriae").

Alexander Dumas(father) devoted to Lyderic one of his books: "Adventures of
Lyderic, forrester of Flanders".

IMHO (almost) all info above is fictious (similar to Dumas' book). Any


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