GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-09 > 0969644576
From: "Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr." <>
Subject: Re: Lines back to Adam and Eve
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:42:56 -0700
I am aware of Darwin:
URBANOWICZ ON DARWIN
"Charles R. Darwin was a human being,
who was born of woman, married
a woman, had friends and relatives
and cares and worries, grew old and
"Darwin was a religious person and at the age
of 19, in 1828, Charles Robert Darwin did not
'in the least doubt the strict and literal truth of
every word of the Bible' (Julian Huxley and
H.B.D. Kettlewell, 1965, Charles Darwin
And His World, page 15)."
"When he boarded HMS Beagle as a young
man of twenty-two, Darwin considered himself
quite a religious individual and he often bore
the brunt of a good deal of laughter 'from several
of the officers for quoting the Bible as final
authority on some moral point' (Bern Dibner,
1964, Darwin Of The Beagle, page 82)."
"Over time, however, Darwin had
gradually come to think the following:
'...that the Old Testament from its manifest
false history of the world, with the Tower
of Babel, the rainbow as a sign, etc., etc.,
and from its attributing to God the feelings
of a revengeful tyrant, was no more to be
trusted that the sacred books of the Hindoos,
or the beliefs of any barbarian' (Bern Dibner,
1964, Darwin Of The Beagle, pages 82-83;
and please see Nora Barlow, 1958,
The Autobiography Of Charles Darwin
1809-1882, pages 78-79 and page 85)."
This change of heart occurred during the same
time, when "On the 26th of March 1835, in
South America, Darwin was bitten by . . .
Triatoma infestans . . .Chagas disease could
result, at various times in migraine, vomiting,
lassitude, stomach and heart problems,
flatulence . . ." "Towards the end of the voyage
of the HMS Beagle, even while Darwin was
still at sea, he began to question the fixity
of species . . ." ". . . By the spring of 1837
he was a transmutationist, believing that
each species has descended from some
other previously existing species and that
its characteristics have been determined
largely by heredity". Thus, Darwin lost his
trust in the God of the Old Testament;
to believe in the "God of Nature".
Darwin's change in opinion occurred during
a time of personal medical crisis, similar to
that of "Alfred Russel Wallace, a self-taught
naturalist" ... [for] "It was there [in 1848 in
the Malay archipelago, Wallace was] lying
in a malarial fever, that he was suddenly struck
with the notion of survival of the fittest as the
mechanism behind adaptation and evolution.
He had, like Darwin, been influenced by reading
Malthus." Darwin's theory that "favourable
variations would tend to be preserved,
and unfavorable ones to be destroyed",
actually came from reading in October, 1838,
"for amusement Malthus on Population".
It is my opinion that Darwin's Theory is an
intellectual source, (a seed bed for racism
and anti-Semitism), when applied to social
relationships. Hitler tried this theory during
W.W.II, "that the fittest survived--
that natural selection [in this case by military
might] would benefit those with advantageous
[Aryan] adaptations and would ruthlessly prune
out [Holocaust] those who lacked them
[the Jews]." Hitler was proven wrong.
Today caring humanity goes to the greatest
expense, on a worldwide scale, to save the
endangered species of the world; disproving
and negating the process of natural selection.
Thus, I am not impressed to "get real", as you
However, this is a 'tongue in cheek' posting.
It shows how a dispassionate study of the
internal evidence of the Biblical record reveals:
that by age comparison, (due to the extended
overlapping life spans), information recorded
as covering about two thousand years, can be
compared today, (by professional genealogical
standards), within the memory framework that
young children could obtain/retain from oral
or written tradition, (concerning the significant
exploits of great-grandparents).
Tom Tinney, Sr.
Who's Who in America, Millennium Edition [54th]
Who's Who In The West, 1998/1999
Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, [both editions]
> Excuse me, but is this a 'tongue in cheek' posting.... whatever happened to
> Darwin's theory of evolution in the US? I know that certain states over
> there are making compulsory the teaching of the 'Adam & Eve' version of
> history, but come on, get real!
> Pete, France
> "Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr." <> wrote in message
> > LDS (Mormon) Ensign
> > Feb 84 I Have a Question (I've heard that
> > some people have extended their ancestral
> > lines back to Adam. Is this possible? . . .)
> > ALSO: LDS (MORMON) Liahona Aug 84
> > Questions and Answers
> > "Robert C. Gunderson, Senior Royalty
> > Research Specialist, Church Genealogical
> > Department. The simplest answer to both
> > questions is No Let me explain. In thirty-five
> > years of genealogical research, I have yet to
> > see a pedigree back to Adam that can be
> > documented."
> > Jan 1835 President Joseph Smith, Jr.:
> > "I was engaged in the school of the elders,
> > and in preparing the Lectures on theology
> > for publication in the Book of Doctrine
> > and Covenants, which the committee
> > appointed last September were now
> > compiling." From the Second Lecture:
> > ANCESTOR ROOTS IN ANTIQUITY
> > Neither can there be a doubt existing on
> > the mind of any person, that Adam was
> > the first who did communicate the knowledge
> > of the existence of a God to his posterity;
> > and that the whole faith of the world, from
> > that time down to the present, is in a certain
> > degree dependent on the knowledge first
> > communicated to them by their common
> > progenitor. And it has been handed down
> > to the day and generation in which we live,
> > as we shall show from the face of the
> > sacred records.
> > First, Adam was 130 years old when Seth
> > was born (Gen. 5:3). And the days of Adam,
> > after he had begotten Seth, were 800 years,
> > making him 930 years old when he died
> > (Gen. 5:4-5). Seth was 105 when Enos was
> > born (Gen. 5:6). Enos was 90 when Cainan
> > was born (Gen. 5:9). Cainan was 70 when
> > Mahalaleel was born (Gen. 5:12). Mahalaleel
> > was 65 when Jared was born (Gen. 5:15).
> > Jared was 162 when Enoch was born
> > (Gen. 5:18). Enoch was 65 when Methuselah
> > was born (Gen. 5:21). Methuselah was 187
> > when Lamech was born (Gen. 5:25). Lamech
> > was 182 when Noah was born (Gen. 5:28).
> > From this account it appears that Lamech,
> > the 9th from Adam, and the father of Noah,
> > was 56 years old when Adam died;
> > Methuselah, 243; Enoch, 308; Jared, 470;
> > Mahalaleel, 535; Cainan, 605; Enos, 695;
> > and Seth, 800. So that Lamech (the father
> > of Noah), Methuselah, Enoch, Jared,
> > Mahalaleel, Cainan, Enos, Seth, and Adam,
> > were all living at the same time, and beyond
> > all controversy were all preachers of
> > righteousness.
> > Moses further informs us that Seth lived
> > after he begat Enos 807 years, making him
> > 912 years old at his death (Gen. 5:7-8).
> > And Enos lived after he begat Cainan 815
> > years, making him 905 years old when he
> > died (Gen. 5:10-11). And Cainan lived
> > after he begat Mahalaleel 840 years,
> > making him 910 years old at his death
> > (Gen. 5:13-14). And Mahalaleel lived
> > after he begat Jared 830 years, making
> > him 895 years old when he died
> > (Gen. 5: 16-17). And Jared lived after
> > he begat Enoch 800 years, making him
> > 962 years old at his death (Gen. 5:19-20).
> > And Enoch walked with God after he
> > begat Methuselah 300 years, making him
> > 365 years old [D&C 107: 49 and he walked
> > with God three hundred and sixty-five years,
> > making him four hundred and thirty years old]
> > when he was translated (King James Version
> > Gen. 5:22-23). NOTE: According to
> > the Pearl of Great Price (Moses 7:68 And
> > all of the days of ZION, in the days of Enoch,
> > were three hundred and sixty-five years.
> > And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech
> > 782 years, making him 969 years old when
> > he died (Gen. 5:26-27). Lamech lived after
> > he begat Noah 595 years, making him 777
> > years old when he died (Gen. 5:30-31).
> > Agreeable to this account, Adam died
> > in the 930th year of the world; Enoch
> > was translated in the 987th; Seth died
> > in the 1042nd; Enos in the 1140th;
> > Cainan in the 1235th; Mahalaleel in
> > the 1290th; Jared in the 1422nd;
> > Lamech in the 1651st; and Methuselah
> > in the 1656th - it being the same year
> > in which the flood came.
> > So Noah was 84 years old when Enos
> > died, 176 when Cainan died, 234 when
> > Mahalaleel died, 366 when Jared died,
> > 595 when Lamech died, and 600 when
> > Methuselah died. We can see from this
> > that Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared,
> > Methuselah, Lamech, and Noah all lived
> > on the earth at the same time; and that Enos,
> > Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared Methuselah,
> > and Lamech, were all acquainted with both
> > Adam and Noah.
> > From the foregoing it is easily to be seen,
> > not only how the knowledge of God came
> > into the world, but upon what principle it
> > was preserved; that from the time it was first
> > communicated, it was retained in the minds
> > of righteous men, who taught not only their
> > own posterity, but the world; so that there
> > was no need of a new revelation to man
> > after Adam's creation to Noah, to give them
> > the first idea or notion of the existence of
> > a God; and not only of a God, but of the true
> > and living God.
> > Having traced the chronology of the world
> > from Adam to Noah, we will now trace it
> > from Noah to Abraham.
> > Noah was 502 years old when Shem was
> > born - 98 years afterward the flood came,
> > being the 600th year of Noah's age.
> > And Moses informs us that Noah lived after
> > the flood 350 years; making him 950 years
> > old when he died (Gen. 9:28-29). Shem was
> > 100 years old when Arphaxad was born
> > (Gen. 11:10). Arphaxad was 35 when Salah
> > was born (Gen. 11:12). Salah was 30 when
> > Eber was born (Gen. 11:14). Eber was 34
> > when Peleg was born, in whose days the
> > earth was divided (Gen. 11:16).
> > Peleg was 30 when Reu was born (Gen. 11:18).
> > Reu was 32 when Serug was born (Gen. 11:20).
> > Serug was 30 when Nahor was born (Gen. 11:22).
> > Nahor was 29 when Terah was born
> > (Gen. 11:24). Terah was 70 when Haran
> > and Abraham were born (Gen. 11:26).
> > There is some difficulty in the account given
> > by Moses, of Abraham's birth. Some have
> > supposed that Abraham was not born until
> > Terah was 130 years old. This conclusion is
> > drawn from a variety of scriptures, which are
> > not to our purpose at present to quote.
> > Neither is it a matter of any consequence
> > to us, whether Abraham was born when
> > Terah was 70 years old, or 130. [See also,
> > previous information on the life span age
> > difference between D&C: Enoch 430 years,
> > less King James Version 365 years (actually
> > ZION dated period) = 65 year difference,
> > at time of recorded death.]
> > But in order that there may no doubt exist
> > upon any mind, in relation to the object
> > lying immediately before us in presenting
> > the present chronology, we will date the
> > birth of Abraham at the latest period -
> > that is, when Terah was 130 years old.
> > It appears from this account, that from
> > the flood to the birth of Abraham was
> > 352 years. Moses informs us that Shem
> > lived after he begat Arphaxad 500 [years]
> > (Gen 11:11). This added to 100 years,
> > which was his age when Arphaxad was
> > born, makes him 600 years old when
> > he died. Arphaxad lived after he begat
> > Salah 403 years (Gen. 11:13). This added
> > to 35 years, which was his age when Salah
> > was born, makes him 438 years old when
> > he died.
> > Salah lived after he begat Eber 403 years
> > (Gen. 11:15). This added to 30 years,
> > which was his age when Eber was born,
> > makes him 433 years old when he died.
> > Eber lived after he begat Peleg 430 years
> > (Gen. 11:17). This added to 34 years,
> > which was his age when Peleg was born,
> > makes him 464 years old.
> > Peleg lived after he begat Reu 209 years
> > (Gen. 11:19). This added to 30 years,
> > which was his age when Reu was born,
> > makes him 239 years old when he died.
> > Reu lived after he begat Serug 207 years
> > (Gen. 11:21). This added to 32 years,
> > which was his age when Serug was born,
> > makes him 239 years old when he died.
> > Serug lived after he begat Nahor 200 years
> > (Gen. 11:23). This added to 30 years,
> > which was his age when Nahor was born,
> > makes him 230 years old when he died.
> > Nahor lived after he begat Terah 119 years
> > (Gen. 11:25). This added to 29 years,
> > which was his age when Terah was born,
> > makes him 148 years old when he died.
> > Terah was 130 years old when Abraham
> > was born, and is supposed to have lived
> > 75 years after his birth, making him 205
> > years old when he died.
> > Agreeable to this last account, Peleg died
> > in the 1996th year of the world, Nahor in
> > the 1997th, and Noah in the 2006th. So
> > that Peleg, in whose days the earth was
> > divided, and Nahor, the grandfather of
> > Abraham, both died before Noah - the
> > former being 239 years old, and the latter
> > [at age] 148. And who cannot but see
> > that they must have had a long and intimate
> > acquaintance with Noah?
> > Reu died in the 2026th year of the world,
> > Serug in [the] 2049th, Terah in the 2083rd,
> > Arphaxad in the 2096th, Salah in the 2126th,
> > Shem in the 2158th, Abraham in the 2183rd,
> > and Eber in the 2187th, which was four years
> > after Abraham's death. And Eber was the
> > fourth from Noah.
> > Nahor, (Abraham's brother) was 58 years
> > old when Noah died, Terah 128, Serug 187,
> > Reu 219, Eber 283, Salah 313, Arphaxad
> > 344, and Shem 448. It appears from this
> > account that Nahor (brother of Abraham),
> > Terah, Nahor, Serug, Reu, Peleg, Eber,
> > Salah, Arphaxad, Shem, and Noah, all lived
> > on the earth at the same time.
> > And that Abraham was 18 years old when
> > Reu died, 41 when Serug and his brother
> > Nahor died, 75 when Terah died, 88 when
> > Arphaxad died, 118 when Salah died, 150
> > when Shem died; and that Eber lived four
> > years after Abraham's death . . . that Shem,
> > Arphaxad, Salah, Eber, Reu, Serug, Terah,
> > and Nahor (the brother of Abraham), and
> > Abraham lived at the same time. And that
> > Nahor (brother of Abraham), Terah, Serug,
> > Reu, Eber, Salah, Arphaxad, and Shem,
> > were all acquainted with both Noah
> > and Abraham.
> > We have now traced the chronology
> > of the world, agreeable to the account
> > given in our present [King James Version]
> > Bible, from Adam to Abraham, and have
> > clearly determined beyond the power of
> > controversy, that there was no difficulty
> > in preserving the knowledge of God in
> > the world from the creation of Adam,
> > and the manifestation made to his immediate
> > descendants, as set forth in the former part
> > of this lecture; so that . . . the knowledge
> > of the existence of a God must have
> > continued from father to son, as a matter
> > of tradition, at least. For we cannot suppose
> > that a knowledge of this important fact
> > could have existed in the mind of any of
> > the before mentioned individuals, without
> > their having made it known to their posterity.
> > Respectfully yours,
> > Tom Tinney, Sr.
> > http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~vctinney/
> > Who's Who in America, Millennium Edition [54th]
> > Who's Who In The West, 1998/1999
> > Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, [both editions]
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