GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2000-09 > 0969922181
From: "Urania" <>
Subject: Re: Adult baptism?
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:49:41 +0100
I am not sure if this is any help, but I believe that there was a
small Protestant denomination very active in the Low Countries at this
period who were called "Anabaptists". Unlike all other Christian
denominations, they did not practice baptism - hence their name. So if
a person who was brought up in an Anabaptist family decided in adult
life to marry and ordinary Christian (Catholic or Protestant) he or
she would have to be baptised before the marriage could take place as
a Christian marriage is only valid between baptised persons.
It is also possible that if a Protestant wished to marry a Catholic,
he or she would have to be re-baptised because the Catholics did not
(as far as I know) recognise the validity of the Protestant sacrament.
This may explain why you have an adult baptism closely followed by a
Jochem Heicke <> wrote in message
> I hope someone from the can help me
> I have these transcriptions made from handwritten documents
> (1693 )
> 29 Marty Bapt. Joannes Henricy filiy generosi Dni Joannis Henrici à
> Swartenberg legitsi???
> Susceptores Dnus Joannes Mattheus Emonts Stathälter et Scheffen
> bancgh mat? et Barbara Kannebecker.
> On June 3 1693 started R.Dno Petro Jacobo Großmeijer his entries in
> Raeren churchbook
> 18 va Marty Veneris a me D. Großmeyer pastore baptizata est filia
> legitima Praenobilis Domini Joannis Henrici Schwartzenbergh de
> Schwartzenberg et Elisabetha Emonts conjugam nomine Anna Catharina
> Susceptores fuerunt Joannes Emonts-Gaß Junior et (-Maria-) Catherina
> (- striked through-)
> Previous entries
> 1679 obiit Praenobilis Dnus Schwarzenberg
> 1 Feb 1680 patrinus fuit Dns Joes Wilhelmus Schwartzenberg von
> 3 Mar 1680 patrinus fuit Joes Nicolaus Schwartzenberg von
> 17 Mar 1680 patrinus fuit Nobilis Dns Joes (-Wilhelmus-)
> von Schwartzenberg patrina fuit Nobilia Filia Maria Isabel
> Schwartzenberg von Schwartzenberg
> Jan 1700 it was Schwarzenberg zu Schwarzenberg
> The arms of Johannes Henricus 1790 a (g)grandson were looking like
> Knight Templar ( I do not have the colors), also to be found in the
> of Bierset on the right,
> where left is blue-white bars.
> According to Ralf Harteminck who maintains a great site of civic
> the Bierset arms came from the famous Bierset-family, who played a
> role in medieval times. The estate came by marriage to the House of
> In Kanton Luzern, Switzerland (arms white-blue shield) we have
> Schwarzenberg, Malters and the next village Ruswill has the same
> Templars arms as in Bierset, red shield parted in four by white
> First Question
> What is the difference between
> generosus Dominus
> Nobilis Dominus
> Praenobilis Dominus
> Praenobilis et genorosus Dominus
> Mas nobilis Dominus
> Second question
> Is the first entry a baptism of a man born 1656 who is going to be
> married next
> Raeren near Aachen/Aix-la-chapelle was catholic. Witten might be on
> protestant side.
> Any idea?
> Jochem Heinrich Leonhard Heicke
> PS: I have not yet completed the list of descendants from JH. It is
> very easy because there are some of them having the same names.
> their wives)